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'Rush Limbaugh Show' Broadcasts Five Minutes of Dead Air as Sponsors Continue to Flee

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Boo Radley said:
I read the last ruling. They made a distinction. yes.

The court stopped short of saying whether the exception would apply to nonministerial employees and left open the possibility that the Michigan Lutheran school teacher who sued might have a case under another legal argument. The court also pointedly avoided setting boundaries for who can be considered a religious employee, concluding only that Cheryl Perich fit the definition.

Supreme Court upholds church school’s exception to laws against firing - Catholic Philly
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The USSC rules that a religious institution has first ammendment rights. You argue that religious institutions don't have them. It really is that simple. I understand that you want to cloud the issue by pointing out that the USSC hasn't yet defined and ruled on every possibility. However, to claim they don't have first ammednemnt protections when the court clearly indicated they do? Shurg.
 
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Grant said:
If the government keeps meddling with religion they could lose four of the top five charitable organizations in the United States.

Perhaps that's their intention.
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I would doubt it, but it could be. It would give them the opportunity to redistribute more taxes and take more control.
 
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buck said:
The USSC rules that a religious institution has first ammendment rights. You argue that religious institutions don't have them. It really is that simple. I understand that you want to cloud the issue by pointing out that the USSC hasn't yet defined and ruled on every possibility. However, to claim they don't have first ammednemnt protections when the court clearly indicated they do? Shurg.
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You're not really trying to understand what's being said. Churches and ministry have those rights. Not schools, not those who are not ministry. Read closely, absent your bias, what was written. Seeking clarity is not clouding, not near as much as ignoring what was said.
 
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Grant said:
If the government keeps meddling with religion they could lose four of the top five charitable organizations in the United States.

Perhaps that's their intention.
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There is virtually no chance of that.
 
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Boo Radley said:
You're not really trying to understand what's being said. Churches and ministry have those rights. Not schools, not those who are not ministry. Read closely, absent your bias, what was written. Seeking clarity is not clouding, not near as much as ignoring what was said.
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They clearly stated that when the employee is defined as a minister, the religious institution (schools) have first ammendment protections.

They did not rule on wheter non-ministirial employees at religious institutions will have the same exception. Lower courts have, though.
 
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buck said:
They clearly stated that when the employee is defined as a minister, the religious institution (schools) have first ammendment protections.

They did not rule on wheter non-ministirial employees at religious institutions will have the same exception. Lower courts have, though.
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yes, because that employee taught religious classes. This is important. teaching religion can be ministry. Teaching math no so much.

And while they did not rule, they did speak of ministerial versus no ministerial. This clearly implies the difference matters.

In overturning that decision, the Supreme Court ruled that the question could not be “resolved by a stopwatch” and that Ms. Perich’s limited teaching about religion helped qualify her as a minister.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/opinion/the-ministerial-exception.html
 
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Boo Radley said:
And while they did not rule, they did speak of ministerial versus no ministerial. This clearly implies the difference matters.
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Yes, I realize your bias leads you to that, and that's fine.

However, clearly, the court ruled that even religious institutions enjoy first ammendment protections - even if they currently limited their ruling strictly to ministerial positions at those schools.

They very purposely did not rule on wether non-ministerial positions will be included in those exceptions. Despite your biased opinion that they are not. That is you reading into it what you want.
 
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buck said:
Yes, I realize your bias leads you to that, and that's fine.

However, clearly, the court ruled that even religious institutions enjoy first ammendment protections - even if they currently limited their ruling strictly to ministerial positions at those schools.

They very purposely did not rule on wether non-ministerial positions will be included in those exceptions. Despite your biased opinion that they are not. That is you reading into it what you want.
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You're not reading or listening. They did not rule, and no claims they did, which means neither of us can be 100% certain. but they did make a distinction and ruled she was a minister and not a contract employee. That made that distinction. You should not ignore it.
 
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Boo Radley said:
You're not reading or listening. They did not rule, and no claims they did, which means neither of us can be 100% certain. but they did make a distinction and ruled she was a minister and not a contract employee. That made that distinction. You should not ignore it.
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You have no idea why they made the distinction - I would bet you that it was made so that they can get the unanimous decision. You want to say it's because they agree with you. We are both using our logic, reasoning and bias to come to the conclusion. I can admit it, you want to just claim that I am biased as if you are not.

Regardless of that, though, they clearly indicated that even a religious institution (a school in this case) can enjoy freedom of religion in certain cases (ministirial exception). Now, we have the Obama administration not making this exception and requiring all employees (included those defined as ministirial at religious institutions) be provided coverage for items against the church's teachings.
 
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buck said:
You have no idea why they made the distinction - I would bet you that it was made so that they can get the unanimous decision. You want to say it's because they agree with you. We are both using our logic, reasoning and bias to come to the conclusion. I can admit it, you want to just claim that I am biased as if you are not.

Regardless of that, though, they clearly indicated that even a religious institution (a school in this case) can enjoy freedom of religion in certain cases (ministirial exception). Now, we have the Obama administration not making this exception and requiring all employees (included those defined as ministirial at religious institutions) be provided coverage for items against the church's teachings.
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I don't go much for betting, but it opens the door and is a distinction. That cannot be denied. And no, they indicated that one spreading the ministry is treated like ministers. The ruling was specific to her role, what she taught, and nothing more. it wasn't the school, but the role of instruction being given.
 
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Boo Radley said:
I don't go much for betting, but it opens the door and is a distinction. That cannot be denied. And no, they indicated that one spreading the ministry is treated like ministers. The ruling was specific to her role, what she taught, and nothing more. it wasn't the school, but the role of instruction being given.
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And she was working as a teacher at a school, not a church. So, even religious institutions run by the church (such as schools, charities, etc) have some protections despite your protestations and biases.

The teacher that was fired for signing an abortion ad and the other teacher that was fired because he was planning a gay wedding - also at schools, not churches. The protections, quite obviously go beyond just churches.
 
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haymarket said:
My evidence is that few weeks.
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I believe it is much ado about nothing. What is the impact on who will rule, or govern, the nation? We shall have to wait for the election to see.
 
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Catawba said:
"Responding to mounting pressure from veterans groups, the U.S. Army confirmed that they would be joining at least 140 other advertisers in pulling their support from Rush Limbaugh’s radio show."

LOL! Yeah, those veterans groups are a funny bunch! :roll:
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This seems like a covering lie. I suspect the troops are pretty pissed. When I was on active duty I looked forward to Rush. I used a reel-to-reel recorder and time to record his show. I know I would have been pissed.

This is the best the left can muster.
 
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Catawba said:
Whichever veterans groups they were, they apparently mean more to the US Army than they do to you, or they wouldn't have bothered to pull the ads, as 140 other sponsors have done.
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Perhaps you are naive. Can you not imagine the one term Marxist president Barack Hussein Obama's administration salivating over the very idea of cutting Rush from the AFRTS lineup? After all, hurting the troops is no big deal.
 
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Misterveritis said:
This seems like a covering lie. I suspect the troops are pretty pissed. When I was on active duty I looked forward to Rush. I used a reel-to-reel recorder and time to record his show. I know I would have been pissed.

This is the best the left can muster.
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The government probably shouldn't be paying for partisan political talk anyway. For either side.
 
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Misterveritis said:
This seems like a covering lie. I suspect the troops are pretty pissed. When I was on active duty I looked forward to Rush. I used a reel-to-reel recorder and time to record his show. I know I would have been pissed.

This is the best the left can muster.
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In the absence of any facts to back up your fascist perspective, your opinion lacks any credibility.
 
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Damn, how did this topic hit 700+ posts?

Nevermind.


Not wishing to read that much, here's my take on the OP:

While I expect a few more advertisers may drop his show, I expect others will rapidly replace them - and I'd be EXTREMELY shocked if his show ended because of this.


As someone said early in the thread, "he makes too much money for too many people".
 
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buck said:
And she was working as a teacher at a school, not a church. So, even religious institutions run by the church (such as schools, charities, etc) have some protections despite your protestations and biases.

The teacher that was fired for signing an abortion ad and the other teacher that was fired because he was planning a gay wedding - also at schools, not churches. The protections, quite obviously go beyond just churches.
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But they separated her from the others because she was part of the ministry. If you read what I linked, they made a specific point to note her seminary training and that she was a minister, not a contracted teachers. The had too have made this point for a reason. They had every opportunity to clearly say what you think they said. but they didn't. They said she was ministerial, and as such could be treated as clergy. this difference is important to the debate.
 
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Boo Radley said:
But they separated her from the others because she was part of the ministry. If you read what I linked, they made a specific point to note her seminary training and that she was a minister, not a contracted teachers. The had too have made this point for a reason. They had every opportunity to clearly say what you think they said. but they didn't. They said she was ministerial, and as such could be treated as clergy. this difference is important to the debate.
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I indicated a reason they probably made that distinction, you want to attribute a different reason - both are guesses. The court did not rule on wether the exception would apply to non-ministirial employees. They also did not indicate who would qualify for a ministirial exception - with concurrences taking a broader view of who would qualify. Your guess isn't anymore valid, reasoned or logical then mine, although I realize you want to believe it is. It's just a guess based on your own biases.

Regardless of all that though, the religious institution in this case clearly has 1st ammendment protections. You can not reasonably argue that they don't. You can argue that their protections are possibly limited, but they still have them in some circumstances.

Did Obama's BC mandate take this into account or are these schools going to be required to provide insurance covering BC against their beliefs to even their employees that qualify for a ministirial exception?
 
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buck said:
I indicated a reason they probably made that distinction, you want to attribute a different reason - both are guesses. The court did not rule on wether the exception would apply to non-ministirial employees. They also did not indicate who would qualify for a ministirial exception - with concurrences taking a broader view of who would qualify. Your guess isn't anymore valid, reasoned or logical then mine, although I realize you want to believe it is. It's just a guess based on your own biases.

Regardless of all that though, the religious institution in this case clearly has 1st ammendment protections. You can not reasonably argue that they don't. You can argue that their protections are possibly limited, but they still have them in some circumstances.

Did Obama's BC mandate take this into account or are these schools going to be required to provide insurance covering BC against their beliefs to even their employees that qualify for a ministirial exception?
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Clearly churches and ministry do, but that is all that is clear. Otherwise, as I have already agreed, the question is open. But, if it was meant to say that schools, hospitals, contracted teachers, doctors and nurses and janitoral staff were covered, they had the opportunity to make that clear. They didn't. This should give you some pause.

These are not churches, and the people over all are not clergy.
 
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Boo Radley said:
Clearly churches and ministry do, but that is all that is clear. Otherwise, as I have already agreed, the question is open. But, if it was meant to say that schools, hospitals, contracted teachers, doctors and nurses and janitoral staff were covered, they had the opportunity to make that clear. They didn't. This should give you some pause.
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When even a liberal, Obama apointed judge is trying to broaden the definition and saying it should be left up to the religious organization, that should really give you some pause.

These are not churches, and the people over all are not clergy.
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You seem confused. This wasn't a church. This was a lutheran elementary school - think catholic school for a different denomination. So, religious organization have, at the very least some, first ammendment protections. It is not only churches as you were previously arguing.

From just one of thousands of articles:

The case started at a Lutheran elementary school in Michigan where a teacher
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The mandate did not make this exception, did it?
 
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buck said:
When even a liberal, Obama apointed judge is trying to broaden the definition and saying it should be left up to the religious organization, that should really give you some pause.
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Not exactly what was said. agian, as pointed out, they spent a lot of time determining that she was clergy.

You seem confused. This wasn't a church. This was a lutheran elementary school - think catholic school for a different denomination. So, religious organization have, at the very least some, first ammendment protections. It is not only churches as you were previously arguing.
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I'm not confused at all. But she was deemed ministerial and not contract teacher. Like I keep pointing out, they spent a lot of time making that distinction, when all they had to do, if you were right, is merely say it was up to the church regardless of her status. They did not do that.

From just one of thousands of articles:



The mandate did not make this exception, did it?
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Continue reading. The point they made was that she was ministerial.
 
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Boo Radley said:
Not exactly what was said. agian, as pointed out, they spent a lot of time determining that she was clergy.



I'm not confused at all. But she was deemed ministerial and not contract teacher.
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At a school, not at a church. The court clearly found that the religious school has first ammendment rights, as of now only in some cases.

Obama's mandate is requiring that all religious institutions (this includes religious schools) provide BC coverage to all of their employees - "all of their employees" includes teachers defined as ministirial employees. This is in violation of the religious institutions rights - as found by this judgement.

Non-minisitiral employees could very well also be included. No ruling was made related to non-ministerial employees - so anything you say in regards to them is just your own guess based on your own bias.
 
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buck said:
At a school, not at a church. The court clearly found that the religious school has first ammendment rights, as of now only in some cases.

Obama's mandate is requiring that all religious institutions (this includes religious schools) provide BC coverage to all of their employees - "all of their employees" includes teachers defined as ministirial employees. This is in violation of the religious institutions rights - as found by this judgement.

Non-minisitiral employees could very well also be included. No ruling was made related to non-ministerial employees - so anything you say in regards to them is just your own guess based on your own bias.
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No. They found that ministerial staff at a school have that right. That is all they ruled on. And according to this ruling, it would not cover ministerial personal, which frankly were always exempt. Until they rule on non-ministerial staff, you cannot conclude that all school and hospital personal are covered under the ruling. It would be premature.
 
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Boo Radley said:
No. They found that ministerial staff at a school have that right. That is all they ruled on. And according to this ruling, it would not cover ministerial personal, which frankly were always exempt. Until they rule on non-ministerial staff, you cannot conclude that all school and hospital personal are covered under the ruling. It would be premature.
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I think you are so clouded by your biases, that you insist on continuing to argue something that I am not. did Obama's BC mandate allow an exception for ministerial staff at religious organizations, such as schools? If not, then the mandate is obviously violating first ammendment rights of religious organizations that employ ministerial staff.

Wether non-ministerial staff also qualify for the exception has not yet been determined. Many lower courts (and appeals courts) have ruled that they do. Until one of those cases, make it to the SC, all you can do is guess.
 
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