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Thread: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

  1. #31
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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    In my opinion, that "cover" needs to go away. This amounts to a carte blanc ticket for official misconduct. And if those people aren't elected officials, they don't answer to the taxpayer in any way/shape/form. It's about time we held people accountable for their actions instead of passing the buck. Without accountability, we're screwed. And this is one $128 million case on point.
    can't agree with this
    the organization which selects individuals to represent it should make those appointments judiciously
    and then it should monitor those officials' decisions to assure that they are acting in the organization's best interests
    the organization should remain responsible for any wrongful actions its representatives commit


    what i have often seen is politicians appointing underlings who will be loyal to them and their agenda, no matter how doing so might cause them to violate existing laws, rules or regulations
    and if the underling gets caught - doing the inappropriate actions the appointing politician expected to be done - that politician disavows the actions of their appointed subordinate, protecting himself
    it is plausible deniability 101
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    If I was black or Latino I would be offended by what this judge said.Because it basically amounts to saying blacks and latinos are too stupid so you have to lower the standard.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I'm sorry folks, but just because the FDNY doesn't represent the racial & ethnic makeup of NYC, doesn't mean their hiring practises or testing is biased.

    as I have pointed out, Jews make up 8% of NYC...but more like 2% of the FDNY. Is this evidence of institutionalized anti-Semitism at the FDNY? no.
    No.

    Often times people aren't even originally from a city that they apply for a city job with, they are moving there for the job, and would not have been included in the original statistics.

    I didn't live in the city I now work for the PD of when I first applied.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  4. #34
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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If I was black or Latino I would be offended by what this judge said.Because it basically amounts to saying blacks and latinos are too stupid so you have to lower the standard.
    i read it differently
    it appeared - to me - that he was asserting the test was rigged
    rigged in favor of the good ole boys who would coach their favorites to score well
    to the detriment of those who were not good ole boys [i.e., non-white]
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    This is the central issue to the case, "whether the skills measured by the FDNY’s written exam have any relationship to skills necessary to be a good firefighter – the EEOC and DOJ have concluded that they do not. CCR contends that there is no reason the City should be using this test to hire firefighters and that continuing to use it is against the law." The court believed it did not. I agree with the court's holding as these tests have little to do with the job.
    The test questions to which people have linked sure look like they have a lot to do with the job.

    Here's a situation where it's really not the court's place to decide. The FDNY knows what it needs. The court isn't equipped to second-guess it.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    The test questions to which people have linked sure look like they have a lot to do with the job.

    Here's a situation where it's really not the court's place to decide. The FDNY knows what it needs. The court isn't equipped to second-guess it.
    yea, more white guys
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i read it differently
    it appeared - to me - that he was asserting the test was rigged
    rigged in favor of the good ole boys who would coach their favorites to score well
    to the detriment of those who were not good ole boys [i.e., non-white]
    And that would be key. If the game was rigged, that's a different matter than merely not passing the test. I haven't looked in to it enough, though I'm sure I can fine someone saying it isn't and someone saying it is. What I would like to see move is what swayed the judge to rule as he did.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    yea, more white guys
    That's the unthinking response, sure.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i read it differently
    it appeared - to me - that he was asserting the test was rigged
    rigged in favor of the good ole boys who would coach their favorites to score well
    to the detriment of those who were not good ole boys [i.e., non-white]
    Why does it appear to be so?

    Did you read those sample questions? Seem like reasonable questions on being a firefighter to me.....

    Can you tell me what is "racist" about those questions?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    It doesn't have ANY relationship to skills necessary to be a firefighter? Really? Statements like this make me very suspicious. I smell a judge that is making things up as he goes along. I think he saw that simply too many whites were getting the positions and concluded discrimination was going on and sought to find it.
    This is not the first time this situation has occurred. "In the early 1970s, Judge Weinfeld in the Southern District of New York found that the City’s written and physical examinations for entry-level firefighters violated the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution because of their discriminatory impact on black and Hispanic applicants." See Vulcan Soc’y of New York City Fire Dep’t, Inc. v. Civil Serv. Comm’n, 360 F. Supp. 1265, 1269 (S.D.N.Y. 1973), affirmed in relevant part by 490 F.2d 387 (2d Cir. 1973). After which, an independent company was hired to develop and administer tests and so forth which would be more representative.
    `

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