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Thread: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

  1. #101
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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Then I think it is important when a judge's decision could be viewed as being based upon emotion that said decision be articulated.

    We have little to no reason to believe that this case is not based on some emotion or some socio-political agenda.

    As I still refuse to believe a test can somehow be racist.
    and your way of 'thinking' is easy to do

    simply choose to ignore the facts
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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  2. #102
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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Statistics are a starting point. However, I do note the Judge does claim long standing discrimination:

    Declining to impose racial quotas, Judge Garaufis nonetheless ruled that a systemic effort was required. “It is the court’s view that nearly 40 years of discrimination will not be cured by a few simple tweaks to the city’s policies and practices,” he wrote.

    (snip)

    Judge Garaufis did not, however, lay blame entirely at Mr. Bloomberg’s feet.

    “That this discrimination has been allowed to persist in New York City for so long,” he wrote, “is a shameful blight on the records of the six mayors of this city who failed to take responsibility for doing what was necessary to end it.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/06/ny...dge-rules.html
    Yet where is the judge's proof of discrimination?

    In statistics?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  3. #103
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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    and your way of 'thinking' is easy to do

    simply choose to ignore the facts
    What facts?

    Statistics with no supplemental information? Sorry, that leads one to make an assumption of what the cause of the statistical difference is.

    And somehow, the assumption is always racism on behalf of X.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Unless of course the tests are graded arbitrarily
    And some sort of evidence would be provided for this?

    Something more than a paranoid delusional assumption that such a thing is occurring right?

    Cause, we don't act like paranoid delusional people in an effort to claim racism right?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    And some sort of evidence would be provided for this?
    Holy **** are you being purposely dense? I posted the actual ruling:

    The City has failed to demonstrate a sufficient relationship between the tasks of a firefighter and the abilities it intended to test on Exams 7029 and 2043. It has failed to take measures to ensure the reliability of those examinations; it has failed to take steps to ensure that that the reading level of the examinations was appropriate; it has failed to test for various recognized important abilities of a firefighter; it has failed to test for abilities needed upon entry into the Academy, rather than abilities to be learned on the job; it has failed to retain
    testing professionals to devise the examination questions; and it has failed to demonstrate that the examinations it administered actually tested the abilities it intended to test. Compounding these
    failings, the City has imposed arbitrary pass/fail scores, unrelated to the qualifications for the job of entry-level firefighter, and has constructed eligibility lists based on distinctions in test scores
    that are unrelated to corresponding differences in the qualifications of firefighter candidates. Following the Second Circuit’s holding in Guardians, the court concludes that the City
    improperly relied upon these poorly constructed examinations in the face of a disparate impact upon minority candidates.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #106
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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    What facts?

    Statistics with no supplemental information? Sorry, that leads one to make an assumption of what the cause of the statistical difference is.

    And somehow, the assumption is always racism on behalf of X.
    there are circumstances when one must use a preponderance of the evidence or a clear and convincing evidenciary standard to make a finding. we charge respected members of the court, recognized for their sober objectivity, to make such decisions. we call them judges. pity i need to explain that to a member of law enforcement

    some might find it racist when individuals inveigh against the court's ruling only when the court finds these racial cases against the race of the individual who refuses to accept the court's considered finding as valid
    Last edited by justabubba; 03-09-12 at 05:19 PM.
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  7. #107
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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Holy **** are you being purposely dense? I posted the actual ruling:
    Any explanation of what was arbitrary about them?

    Or can they just *say* it was Arbitrary and we are all supposed to believe it at face value?

    This isn't moving us any more furthur than if you were to have called it arbitrary.

    What about them was arbitrary?

    What comprised of the Pass/Fail Scores?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  8. #108
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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    it has failed to test for various recognized important abilities of a firefighter; it has failed to test for abilities needed upon entry into the Academy,
    It's funny. I remember a few years ago when the fire dept did just that and were sued. You had to be able to carry so much weight down a ladder. When women were not able to meet this standard, there was a lawsuit.

  9. #109
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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    there are circumstances when one must use a preponderance of the evidence or a clear and convincing evidenciary standard to make a finding. we charge respected members of the court, recognized for their sober objectivity, to make such decisions. we call them judges. pity i need to explain that to a member of law enforcement
    Yeah.... about that.....

    Judges, elected by people... (who rarely ever do enough research as to who the **** they are electing)...

    Or appointed by................................................ .................................................. ......

    Wait for it..............



    Politicians.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  10. #110
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    Re: FDNY ordered to hire minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Yet where is the judge's proof of discrimination?

    In statistics?

    I suspect it was presented in court. Which is a point I keep making. In court, both sides present evidence. This was not the first case, and in each case evidence is presented. This is how it is done, right?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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