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Explosive Growth of Militias

taxigirl said:
This was requested:
(emphasis mine)

I responded. Unless I misunderstood the question and he wanted list from within the report. I support these groups existing, for many reasons, and I would not call them nuts or paranoid.
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From what I can tell, Rev wanted evidence for this "explosion" leading up to the election, inspired by Obama -- as in, increases in the past couple of years.

Just about everything on your list has existed for quite a bit longer than that, for decades in many cases. They had nothing to do with Obama or the upcoming election, and they do not represent an "explosion" or even an "uptick" in activity.
 
AdamT said:
While I appreciate your mind reading skills, I think I'm probably a better judge of what I think than you are. :lol:
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:shrug: I see a pretty clear motivation here.

So, which ones DON'T do what you're "concerned about," and how prevalent are they among the movement? No mind-reading -- just spell it out.
 
AdamT said:
No, I don't want to indict everyone. I just want paramilitary organizations operating within our borders and openly proclaiming that they will make their own constitutional determinations and possibly react violently if they disagree with the government's interpretations ... to be under observation.
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You are way more generous than me. They constitute a direct threat to the United States of America. I want them eliminated.
 
Good Lord, is there anything liberals aren't scared to death of?
 
AdamT said:
The writer of the article made a mistake -- shocking. The Hutaree is another Michigan-based militia group. :shrug:
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A mistake? You are far kinder than I am sir. It was a blatant misrepresentation.
 
taxigirl said:
This was requested:
(emphasis mine)

I responded. Unless I misunderstood the question and he wanted list from within the report. I support these groups existing, for many reasons, and I would not call them nuts or paranoid.
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So SPLC listed these groups as "patriot" groups in quotes? Many of these people are indeed patriots and when the **** hits the fan, they may just save your ass, whether it be the zombie apocolypse or a tornado.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
So SPLC listed these groups as "patriot" groups in quotes? Many of these people are indeed patriots and when the **** hits the fan, they may just save your ass, whether it be the zombie apocolypse or a tornado.
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yeah, but who's gonna save us from the militias?
 
Harshaw said:
From what I can tell, Rev wanted evidence for this "explosion" leading up to the election, inspired by Obama -- as in, increases in the past couple of years.

Just about everything on your list has existed for quite a bit longer than that, for decades in many cases. They had nothing to do with Obama or the upcoming election, and they do not represent an "explosion" or even an "uptick" in activity.
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Before every election their is an increase in extremist groups, it works both ways if anyone had bothered to read my post while back this was all explained.
taxigirl said:
It is not just the SPLC

Anti-government hate militias on the rise - CNN
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...QlTu0bpnAUoLyJN5w&sig2=wYvkeekIaoAs1COOOQxUJw
menu
Militia Groups

There are plenty of "lists" just google it.
There are also "left-wing" groups that are being watched by the FBI (as well as right-wing). There are various kinds of domestic terrorism (eco, animal rights, civil rights etc..)

When dems are in the white house we see a rise in right wing groups and the opposite is true for when the GOP is in the white house. There have been plenty of left wing groups in history that have made news. SDS, weather Underground, Black Panthers, MOVE, SLA etc...

There are extremists on both sides of the spectrum. There is also activity that goes on that we do not hear about because the general public has lost interest and unless there is bloodshed, we do not hear about it. The FBI and ATF have gotten pretty good at tracking and putting a stop to things before they happen (which is kind of scary).
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Doctoral students have done their theses on the this topic, there are professionals who have written books and done studies about this trend. It is because there is such a large rift in ideology. If you look throughout the history in the US and other countries there is a tendency to silence those who speak out. As our country grows and more and more restrictions are placed on our behavior and civil rights, more and more of this will happen because those rights are spelled out for us in the Constitution, which people tout as the law of the land. The truth is that the law is the restrictions that are placed on us. These groups see the restrictions as an erosion of our rights and a corruption of what the country is supposed to stand for; freedom, the flag, patriotism, the ideals set forth in the Constitution. The government has silenced people before and they will do it again, which is why we should appreciate these groups for standing up instead of criticizing them and saying they are paranoid, they have justification for their feelings.

Quite frankly, I agree with them

Google around a bit and you might be surprised. Some groups try to stay under the radar and do not have web sites, but they most certainly exist.
 
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Wiggen said:
You are way more generous than me. They constitute a direct threat to the United States of America. I want them eliminated.
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Will you be doing the "eliminating" yourself chief, or will you be sending someone elses son to do your dirty work?
 
Harshaw said:
:shrug: I see a pretty clear motivation here.

So, which ones DON'T do what you're "concerned about," and how prevalent are they among the movement? No mind-reading -- just spell it out.
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Like I've conducted investigations of them all? I think that there's probably a broad spectrum that they fall into, from perfectly innocent boys' clubs to seriously paranoid and dangerous. But I think that the common threads that bind them: a belief that they are entitled to take vigilante action if they think the government's interpretation of the Constitution diverges too far from their own, coupled with paramilitary organization and firearms, militates in favor of keeping them under observation. The degree of observation would obviously be a case-by-case determination. I'm sure that a relatively quick study would allow authorities to check a lot of them off their list.
 
Thunder said:
the OKC bombing made me fearful of militias and their wacky ideas.
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That's apparently because you think it had anything to do with the militias. That slander was cleared up almost two decades ago; where have YOU been?
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
A mistake? You are far kinder than I am sir. It was a blatant misrepresentation.
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That implies intent, which I think is unlikely. The press makes mistakes all the time, mostly because they just suck.
 
AdamT said:
Like I've conducted investigations of them all? I think that there's probably a broad spectrum that they fall into, from perfectly innocent boys' clubs to seriously paranoid and dangerous. But I think that the common threads that bind them: a belief that they are entitled to take vigilante action if they think the government's interpretation of the Constitution diverges too far from their own, coupled with paramilitary organization and firearms, militates in favor of keeping them under observation. The degree of observation would obviously be a case-by-case determination. I'm sure that a relatively quick study would allow authorities to check a lot of them off their list.
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Nice dodge. At best, it shows you're spouting off without really knowing anything about them.

But by using "common threads," you still show that you suspect ALL of them. :roll:
 
Thunder said:
yeah, but who's gonna save us from the militias?
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If every community had its own militia, as was the norm, and the INTENT, then it's not an issue. It's the militia system (stretching back 1500 years) working properly.
 
Cole said:
Color me cynical. The OP (and associated articles) cite 1200 private militias and 2000 different "hate groups".


Anybody have a link to the list that identifies all these different groups.....??
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Most of the "groups" are likely 5-20 local people with no real power at the moment.

Paschendale said:
Personally, I'm not all that comfortable with armed groups rolling around like this. Especially when racism, homophobia, and religiously motivated bigotry is often a part of their agendas. I don't see how these groups are any different from gangs. Both groups support violence and exclusivity, and are armed with dangerous weapons. So yeah, I see these militias as gangs with different terminology. And they differ by their age and race, of course.
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Militias and gangs are very different.

Militia (assuming you mean non-governmental) - A military force that engages in rebel activities.

Gang - A group of criminals or hoodlums who band together for mutual protection and profit.

Gang activities are rarely anit-government.

Tigger said:
I keep telling you people that sooner rather than later there is going to be a Third American Revolution. The first one started with small town and regional militias under the Minuteman system (which had been in place for more than a century) and the Sons of Liberty. This is a more high tech and slightly more militant version of that same ideal.
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Some day there may be a third American Revolution. It might even be some day soon. But if you truly believe it will begin with a bunch of ignorant, racist idiots, then you are truly fooling yourself. Let's face it - these militia groups are not Conservatives or people who want to oppose the American government. They are just a large number of people opposed to the idea of an African American President. And racism toward a single man, even if he is President, by a group of traditionally racist Southerners will not spark a nationwide revolt.
 
Harshaw said:
Nice dodge. At best, it shows you're spouting off without really knowing anything about them.

But by using "common threads," you still show that you suspect ALL of them. :roll:
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It was a direct answer to your question -- not a dodge.

There is a big difference between keeping an eye out for potential problems and suspecting that everything you observe is up to no good.
 
AdamT said:
No, I don't want to indict everyone. I just want paramilitary organizations operating within our borders and openly proclaiming that they will make their own constitutional determinations and possibly react violently if they disagree with the government's interpretations ... to be under observation.
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I'm quite certain that King George III and his loyal supporters would have thought the same thing. ;)

It's funny how dissatisfaction with government can get one labeled one as a traitor, depending on one's point of view. When militia members are loyal to the constitutional principles on which this nation was founded, are they the ones who should be suspect? If "patriots" should be considered suspect, then this tells me just how far away from our beginnings we have strayed.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
I asked you to "name them", you have failed.... Who has no evidence?
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LOL So, you going to ignore this:

ReverendHellh0und said:
Remember a few years ago "the year of the shark" where the media reported ad nauseum every shark attack it could find, making the people think there was an epidemic?


Yeah, shark attacks were actually down that year, it was a made up story.....


Militia stories on the way up towards the november elections? made up.
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Mr. Invisible said:
If you think that these stories are made up, do you mind providing evidence?
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So, now you need to be dishonest it seems.
 
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