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Thread: Explosive Growth of Militias

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    What you do for a living is to work for one of the most corrupt, tyrannical, and overbearing governments in the nation. You wallow in the filth, the crime, and the corruption that is New York City. You defend this filth on this forum.....
    still playing this old' fiddle huh?

    I have NO idea why you obsessed over me at the other forum, and I have NO idea why you obsess over me here.

    whatever the reason is, its likely quite sad and pathetic.

  2. #602
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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, I think you would need a LOT more examples to make a convincing case that regular folks should fear the government. Every large institution will overstep from time to time, or make mistakes, but I'd say the odds are greater that you will be hit by lightening... twice ... than they are that the black helicopters will come for you. Do people get hit by lightning twice? Yes, it happens. Is it rational to spend a lot of time worrying about it? Not so much.

    Too infringe on individual freedoms or rights once is too often.

    Not until it happens to you.
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    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    Too infringe on individual freedoms or rights once is too often.

    Not until it happens to you.
    It has happened to me and it has not changed my opinion.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    I am unclear if you are making the point that people in Burma have it worse, or that yes, people have reason to fear their governments.

    I do not recognize "Myanmar" to be the legitimate name of BURMA because the ruling military government did not have authority to rename the country.

    I often speak of the massacre of 8-8-88 as an exemplary example of the human ability to stand up and fight oppression. It offends me greatly that the world knows more about the incident at Tiananmen Square, hopefully, now that social media has taken hold, it will help prevent another tragedy in the scale of 8-8-88. The "government" in Burma is subject to more exposure now.

    Aung San Suu Kyi (pretty much my hero) and her father should be more known throughout the world as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and are.

    "It is not power that corrupts but fear. Fear of losing power" and that is one of my arguments against government, especially in a society like ours where greed, lust and envy are so prevalent.... but that is another thread (see http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-con...ism-hated.html).
    Protests in Burma (Myanmar) - YouTube

    WARNING: CONTAINS GRAPHIC CONTENT!

    Dying for your belief in opposing oppression, ain't opposing much. The object is to make the oppressor die if he wants to continue oppressing.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, I'm not kidding at all. Who are some of these legitimate citizen militia groups?

    For Missouri; the MIAC report specifically describes supporters of presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr as “militia” influenced terrorists and instructs the Missouri police to be on the lookout for supporters displaying bumper stickers and other paraphernalia associated with the Constitutional, Campaign for Liberty, and Libertarian parties.

    The MIAC report does not concentrate on Muslim terrorists, but rather on the so-called “militia movement” and conflates it with supporters of Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, Bob Barr, the so-called patriot movement and other political activist organizations.

    Police are educated in the document that people are are anti-abortion, own gold, display an assortment of U.S. flags, or even those that talk about the film Zeitgeist, view the police as their “enemy” and conflates them with domestic terrorists like Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, Olympic bomber Eric Rudolph and other domestic militia groups who have been charged with plotting terrorist attacks.

    The conflation of banal sectors of society such as people who own gold, fly flags, display bumper stickers or who support mainstream political candidates such as Bob Barr or Ron Paul, and the guilt-by-association smear that they are likely to be dangerous and potential terrorists, is a staggering alarm bell which indicates police are being trained that ordinary Americans, not radicalized Mexican race hate groups or Al-Qaeda suicide bomber cells, are the number one domestic threat in the war on terror.

    The MIAC report is similar to one created by the Phoenix Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Joint Terrorism Task Force during the Clinton administration (see page one and page two of the document). The FBI document explicitly designates “defenders” of the Constitution as “right-wing extremists.” The MIAC report expands significantly on the earlier document.

    highlighted previous training manuals issued by state and federal government bodies which identify whole swathes of the population as potential terrorists. A Texas Department of Public Safety Criminal Law Enforcement pamphlet gives the public characteristics to identify terrorists that include buying baby formula, beer, wearing Levi jeans, carrying identifying documents like a drivers license and traveling with women or children.

    A Virginia training manual used to help state employees recognize terrorists lists anti-government and property rights activists as terrorists and includes binoculars, video cameras, paper pads and notebooks in a compendium of terrorist tools.

    Such training documents are manifesting real-life situations where people are being harassed, assaulted and arrested by law enforcement simply for owning material or discussing topics related to the Constitution and the bill of rights.

    a student of a large bible college in east Texas was accused by federal agents of committing an “act of terror and espionage” after he gave a talk to a group of Boy Scouts in which he encouraged them to educate themselves about the U.S. constitution.

    Police Trained Nationwide That Informed Americans Are Domestic Terrorists;

    In July 2007, the Kuhns, a North Carolina couple were handcuffed, arrested and bundled into a squad car, to the protests of numerous neighbors who demanded to know why the Kuhns were being incarcerated, but were told to leave by police. They were in fact being arrested for flying an upside down flag, as is supported by the United States Flag Code as well as a similar incident in 2001, flying the flag upside down is not a mark of disrespect, and in fact is considered by many to be the highest form of patriotism. Despite this fact, the upside down flag is equated in the MIAC report with terrorist paraphernalia.

    Alex Jones’ 2001 documentary film 9/11: The Road to Tyranny featured footage from a FEMA symposium given to firefighters and other emergency personnel in Kansas City in which it was stated that the founding fathers, Christians and homeschoolers were terrorists and should be treated with the utmost suspicion and brutality in times of national emergency.

    The lecturer identifies George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and other founding fathers as “terrorists”.

    In 2004, Kelly Rushing was charged with making “terroristic threats” after he handed out Alex Jones videos and recordings of a Congressman Ron Paul speech on C-Span to Lyon County, Kentucky officials and Kentucky State Trooper Lewis Dobbs.

    A jury later ruled in favor of Rushing but he continues to be harassed by authorities and local law enforcement.

    In October 2007, a Michigan man was harassed, handcuffed, assaulted, branded “unpatriotic” and subjected to an unconstitutional search of his vehicle during which drugs were allegedly planted, before being ticketed by a police officer for the apparent crime of freely distributing DVD’s about 9/11 truth.

    a Las Vegas couple were stopped by police, detained and searched as cops demanded to know if there was anything illegal inside the vehicle. When the couple asked why they had been stopped, the police officer pointed at “Infowars” and “Ron Paul” bumper stickers on their car.

    In 2001, housewife Abbey Newman was assaulted and arrested by police at a checkpoint for exercising her 4th amendment right. Cops looked through literature which included a copy of a pocket constitution and debated whether or not the material was illegal. (cool isn't it? Having a copy of the constitution might be illegal?...)


    Its getting nuts! What bothers me most is that according to all these documents I (yes me) should be suspected as being some kind of terrorist! I am not a criminal, not part of any militia or gang, just a citizen who believes our rights are slowly leaving, and somehow this makes me a target? someone to 'watch' because I believe in the constitution my forefathers fought and died for? I pay taxes, am a registered republican, yet, should be closely watched and suspected? All I am asking is what is our country coming to? This is not what we died for!
    Last edited by FreedomOf; 03-18-12 at 10:31 AM.

  6. #606
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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomOf View Post
    For Missouri; the MIAC report specifically describes supporters of presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr as “militia” influenced terrorists and instructs the Missouri police to be on the lookout for supporters displaying bumper stickers and other paraphernalia associated with the Constitutional, Campaign for Liberty, and Libertarian parties.

    The MIAC report does not concentrate on Muslim terrorists, but rather on the so-called “militia movement” and conflates it with supporters of Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, Bob Barr, the so-called patriot movement and other political activist organizations.

    Police are educated in the document that people are are anti-abortion, own gold, display an assortment of U.S. flags, or even those that talk about the film Zeitgeist, view the police as their “enemy” and conflates them with domestic terrorists like Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, Olympic bomber Eric Rudolph and other domestic militia groups who have been charged with plotting terrorist attacks.

    The conflation of banal sectors of society such as people who own gold, fly flags, display bumper stickers or who support mainstream political candidates such as Bob Barr or Ron Paul, and the guilt-by-association smear that they are likely to be dangerous and potential terrorists, is a staggering alarm bell which indicates police are being trained that ordinary Americans, not radicalized Mexican race hate groups or Al-Qaeda suicide bomber cells, are the number one domestic threat in the war on terror.

    The MIAC report is similar to one created by the Phoenix Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Joint Terrorism Task Force during the Clinton administration (see page one and page two of the document). The FBI document explicitly designates “defenders” of the Constitution as “right-wing extremists.” The MIAC report expands significantly on the earlier document.
    You're not from 'round here, are ya' Boy? LOL! (j/k but I couldn't resist)

    This is Missouri we're talking about here, not NY, Cali, or DC. In this part of the world home-grown Rabble Rousers are the biggest threat, not Muslims who are about the same as everyone else here, namely hard-working middle-class (not many Muslim farmers, though). MIAC gets most of it's data from local LEO's with some input from Uncle Sam. Trust me, in this State we really don't care too much about Uncle Sam's opinion but we'll take whatever data (not opinion!) is available and incorporate it into ours. Let me give you a recent example of a "problem" around here:

    Police Intervene, Arrest Ron Paul Backers at Missouri Caucus - Yahoo! News

    Looks like the Ron Paul mention wasn't so far off after all.
    Yes, in Mo something like that IS a big deal. We're pretty laid back. (see Fame below)

    As for the rest, Mo is #15 in per capita gun ownership. KY (E of us) tops the list at #1, TN (SE of us) is #11, AR (S) is #9, OK (SW) #12, KS (W) #23, and IL (E) #18. In short, we are well armed in the Heartland. Of the nine States with Mo in the center only IA (N) and Nebraska (NW) are on the bottom half of the list. If you're looking for trouble here it'll be locals, not some guys speaking in a thick Mideast accent. Any accent around here draws attention - unless it's a Southern drawl and even a thick one of those would. Megacities like NY, LA, Chicago, and DC are the places that need extra attention to potential foreign terrorist, not Mo where Fame comes from

    - Bar-B-Q (KC),
    - Beer (Anheuser-Busch), and
    - Country Music (Silver Dollar City, aka Nashville West).

    I mean, what would Muslims terrorists strike in Mo, the brewery?

    States with the most guns - The Daily Beast
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 03-18-12 at 12:53 PM.
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  7. #607
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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Protests in Burma (Myanmar) - YouTube

    WARNING: CONTAINS GRAPHIC CONTENT!

    Dying for your belief in opposing oppression, ain't opposing much. The object is to make the oppressor die if he wants to continue oppressing.
    I still don't get your point. Are you telling me I should be thankful (which I am) or are you telling me something else?

    Regarding Burma: I've put my money where my mouth is, I followed the 2007 incidents on Australian News, Al Jazeera and anytime I could get access to Irrawaddy and Mizzima.

    Are you asking me for something?

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

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    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

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