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Thread: Explosive Growth of Militias

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Why do you say that? -- What's your source on stories about them that have shaped your opinion?

    Also, many extreme leftist groups are investigated regularly by them.

    So your comment on the surface seems like ignorant ranting.
    They are panderers of the worst sort. They want to keep their supporters fearful of "racist" or "anti semitic" movements in order to get the rich, often Jewish benefactors, to continue to give them money. They have to keep the "problem" alive in order to convince people that the SPLC continues to do something useful.

    Morris Dees is a pimp pure and simple. he has become addicted to the limelight and has become mastered by his own mythology. Anyone who opposes Obamacare or the Obama administration apparently has racist motivations according to that turd. Any pro gun group is seen as some sort of sinister "militia"


    here are some of the criticisms of Dees and the SPLC

    Intolerance Identified - Morris Dees and The Southern Poverty Law Center - article on the SPLC, Morris Dees and hate crime

    Oregon Firearms Federation

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    They are panderers of the worst sort. They want to keep their supporters fearful of "racist" or "anti semitic" movements in order to get the rich, often Jewish benefactors, to continue to give them money. They have to keep the "problem" alive in order to convince people that the SPLC continues to do something useful.
    Hrrm whutz the hurkalurp am I reeding?

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    From Wiki
    Dees has faced criticism that he uses too much of the Southern Poverty Law Center's fundraising intake as personal income - and even accusations that the SPLC exists mostly as a fundraising vehicle. A 2000 article by Ken Silverstein in Harper's Magazine, titled "The Church of Morris Dees", alleged that Dees kept the SPLC focused on fighting anti-minority groups like the KKK, instead of on issues like homelessness, mostly because of the greater fundraising potential of the former. The article also claimed that the SPLC "spends twice as much on fund-raising--$5.76 million last year--as it does on legal services for victims of civil rights abuses."[16] In 2005, Washington Times editor Wesley Pruden called Dees "nothing more than a scam artist."[17] Stephen Bright, an Atlanta-based civil rights attorney, wrote in 2007 that Dees was "a con man and fraud", who "has taken advantage of naive, well-meaning people–some of moderate or low incomes–who believe his pitches and give to his $175-million operation."[18]

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    they are pimps who scare paranoid lefties into giving them lots of money.
    I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one, because the SPLC also keeps tabs on black extremists groups and Islamic extremist groups. Won't see many Libbos starting threads about that, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    They are panderers of the worst sort. They want to keep their supporters fearful of "racist" or "anti semitic" movements in order to get the rich, often Jewish benefactors, to continue to give them money. They have to keep the "problem" alive in order to convince people that the SPLC continues to do something useful.

    Morris Dees is a pimp pure and simple. he has become addicted to the limelight and has become mastered by his own mythology. Anyone who opposes Obamacare or the Obama administration apparently has racist motivations according to that turd. Any pro gun group is seen as some sort of sinister "militia"


    here are some of the criticisms of Dees and the SPLC

    Intolerance Identified - Morris Dees and The Southern Poverty Law Center - article on the SPLC, Morris Dees and hate crime

    Oregon Firearms Federation
    I was looking for objective investigations into or stories about SPLC--and I think you knew that.

    However, I glanced at both of your links and from the start they read like WND paranoia--designed to further gin up resentment toward the SPLC without really giving reasons other than "lefties"... A catch-all phrase for non-critical thinking individuals.

    I have read things about the ACLU that disturb me. IMO, they're overzealously going after religious symbols, God in pledge, etc. But I haven't read anything negative about SPLC. They gather data on some pretty bad folks and write reports. They are invited by police departments to speak and share data. Why do you have a problem with that?

    Do you have a comment on their data? Are they unfairly writing reports on perfectly harmless people?

    I could see how you might argue that SPLC doesn't seem have any reports on extreme-left Anarchist groups. They do have reports on Black Separatists, Nation of Islam, Farrakhan, etc.

    In the SPLC mission statement they say: Dedicated to fighting hate and bigotry.

    I have no problem in a organization having a mission statement and sticking to it. In fact, I respect that. I would be open to discussing violent groups not listed by SPLC and whether or not those groups fall outside the mission statement. Meaning show me how the SPLC is ignoring a certain group.

    Criteria:

    1) The group has a history of violence and is active.

    2) The group's philosophy would be considered by most to be racist and bigoted.

    Show me a group ignored by SPLC that meets that criteria and we can discuss further.

    Just to be clear, I don't associate any racist group with the mainstream right or left. I am disturbed when any mainstream party baulks on condemning extremist actions.

    In the run up to the election, if GOP rallies get heated like 2008, and people shout out "kill him" or "muslim" when Obama is mentioned, I'll be interested to see if the GOP candidate has the class to handle it the way McCain did and try calm everyone down.


    Lastly, you described the SPLC as 'pimps', could you elaborate?

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    From Wiki
    Dees has faced criticism that he uses too much of the Southern Poverty Law Center's fundraising intake as personal income - and even accusations that the SPLC exists mostly as a fundraising vehicle. A 2000 article by Ken Silverstein in Harper's Magazine, titled "The Church of Morris Dees", alleged that Dees kept the SPLC focused on fighting anti-minority groups like the KKK, instead of on issues like homelessness, mostly because of the greater fundraising potential of the former. The article also claimed that the SPLC "spends twice as much on fund-raising--$5.76 million last year--as it does on legal services for victims of civil rights abuses."[16] In 2005, Washington Times editor Wesley Pruden called Dees "nothing more than a scam artist."[17] Stephen Bright, an Atlanta-based civil rights attorney, wrote in 2007 that Dees was "a con man and fraud", who "has taken advantage of naive, well-meaning people–some of moderate or low incomes–who believe his pitches and give to his $175-million operation."[18]

    Please don't forget to include a link so we can go back to the source and read the quote in context.

    The first criticism accuses SPLC of following its stated mission. And, so... I'd have to see the entire Harper's magazine article to really understand what is being said re: fundraising.

    Washington Times editor and 1 (one) civil rights attorney. No history or context of either person given.

    I think you'll agree, it's all pretty weak so far.

    You take what just about any group does out of context, and it could potentially seem negative, given the right spin.

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one, because the SPLC also keeps tabs on black extremists groups and Islamic extremist groups. Won't see many Libbos starting threads about that, though.

    remind me of rich right wingers who give Morris Dees lots of money because of that. I bet you cannot

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Please don't forget to include a link so we can go back to the source and read the quote in context.

    The first criticism accuses SPLC of following its stated mission. And, so... I'd have to see the entire Harper's magazine article to really understand what is being said re: fundraising.

    Washington Times editor and 1 (one) civil rights attorney. No history or context of either person given.

    I think you'll agree, it's all pretty weak so far.

    You take what just about any group does out of context, and it could potentially seem negative, given the right spin.
    My bad, I was under the assumption that most people on this board could type MORRIS DEES into a google search and find that easily

    sorry

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    My bad, I was under the assumption that most people on this board could type MORRIS DEES into a google search and find that easily

    sorry
    Generally when sourcing something, you include a link. Wiki is fine, as long as the links to the sources are still active.

    Feel free to address any points that I made in the 2 previous posts.

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    The research you provided noted eight violent militia members. Are you implying all militia are in some way connected to the radical ones?
    No, I'm not implying that.

    My research comprised something like a two-minute Google search, so I'm sure there's probably more to be found.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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