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Thread: Explosive Growth of Militias

  1. #341
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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    He sold a sawed off shotgun to an ATF agent.



    Since always. Are you a 'collector' or a lunatic? What is the reason that you feel the need to acquire more guns than you have hands to shoot them with?



    You just contradicted yourself. Unless you plan on purchasing a weapon and then leaving it at the store.



    They're all perfectly reasonable and the wrong answer will get you locked up. For instance: "No, I don't have a permit for that handgun in my glove box." Or "Yes, I have illegally modified this weapon." Or "I need all these guns to start a race war and bring down the government, it says so on my website."

    Because the spirit of the law is not as important as you finding a way to circumvent it... That kind of mentality makes me sick. You make money, and a stray round goes in kid's back, paralyzing him. Congrats.
    When the **** are you liberals going to understand that protecting the rights of people that we hate is just as important as protecting the rights of those we like?

    Equal under the law menas just that, not because I dont like the way they think they deserve no rights---that way lies tyranny. Your posts are pervasive of that thinking.

  2. #342
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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    So not dude. Magna cum laude for.my undergrad in journalism high Honor's with 3.94 Gpa for Masters.
    Bravo! I was just kidding, re: all the typos.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    When the **** are you liberals going to understand that protecting the rights of people that we hate is just as important as protecting the rights of those we like?
    Attention: Straw Man, Straw Man, Straw Man....


    We don't protect criminals or enable them to acquire weapons.

    Equal under the law menas just that, not because I dont like the way they think they deserve no rights---that way lies tyranny. Your posts are pervasive of that thinking.
    Please show me specifically what I said that is "pervasive of that thinking."

    You break the law. You go to jail.

    You do something suspicious, police can stop and ask a question...

    You post on Free Republic something that indicates you may be advocating or considering an overt act, then the FBI / ATF has the right to knock on your door and see how serious you are. If you're just a pimple faced fat kid in a basement, then no worries. But if you've got blueprints of a building on the wall of your basement... Then buh-bye, smart guy... And thanks for the free guns. We'll have fun destroying them. BTW - if you are willing to cooperate and tell us where you got all the guns, maybe you'll only do 10 years instead of 20...

    And why do you want equal protection for gun owners and not homosexuals and/or muslims?

  4. #344
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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    When the **** are you liberals going to understand that protecting the rights of people that we hate is just as important as protecting the rights of those we like?

    Equal under the law menas just that, not because I dont like the way they think they deserve no rights---that way lies tyranny. Your posts are pervasive of that thinking.
    I agree. And I would feel exactly the same way if these were groups of anarchists, or communists, or whateverists. Whatever the beleif, if it's a sizeable group that employs apocolyptic anti-government rhetoric and considers itself to be a paramility organization, it's something the government needs to keep an eye on.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  5. #345
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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Maybe you should look at the report instead of fixating on Taxigirl's page reference? If you do you will see that there's a subtitled section that describes in detail what the conflicting claims were about the initial encounter.
    You're weaseling again. I didn't ask you what the "conflicting claims" were. I asked you what the Weavers lied about. There's a wealth of documentation of government coverup and CYA for this incident, which SEVERELY damages their credibility -- or should for any critical observer. Where's the similar evidence re: the Weavers?

    In other words, questioning the ATF's statements has a documented trail of reasons behind it. It is not so for the Weavers. Thus, as a question of who's more credible, the EVIDENCE lines up behind the Weavers.

    Even if you find them weird and icky.
    ďOffing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.Ē-- Bernadine Dohrn

  6. #346
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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You're weaseling again. I didn't ask you what the "conflicting claims" were. I asked you what the Weavers lied about. There's a wealth of documentation of government coverup and CYA for this incident, which SEVERELY damages their credibility -- or should for any critical observer. Where's the similar evidence re: the Weavers?

    In other words, questioning the ATF's statements has a documented trail of reasons behind it. It is not so for the Weavers. Thus, as a question of who's more credible, the EVIDENCE lines up behind the Weavers.

    Even if you find them weird and icky.
    icky. that is one of my favorite words.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  7. #347
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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    His family were white separatists, this does not make them racist or anti-semitic as various misinformation campaigns would have you believe. Randy believes that by separating the races we can avoid conflict. Right or Wrong, that is his prerogative and he should not be persecuted for that. I think the "separatist" you are referring to is an "isolationist".
    How can the total separation of races where the "mixing" (miscegenation) of races is viewed as a negative not be racist? If the result of a mixed couple is inferior to that of "pure" racial couples, how is that not racist?

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    His family were white separatists, this does not make them racist or anti-semitic as various misinformation campaigns would have you believe. Randy believes that by separating the races we can avoid conflict. Right or Wrong, that is his prerogative and he should not be persecuted for that. I think the "separatist" you are referring to is an "isolationist".
    you're splitting hairs here.

    you don't hang out with Aryan Nations assholes unless you hate blacks, Jews, and lots of other folks.

  9. #349
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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You're weaseling again. I didn't ask you what the "conflicting claims" were. I asked you what the Weavers lied about. There's a wealth of documentation of government coverup and CYA for this incident, which SEVERELY damages their credibility -- or should for any critical observer. Where's the similar evidence re: the Weavers?

    In other words, questioning the ATF's statements has a documented trail of reasons behind it. It is not so for the Weavers. Thus, as a question of who's more credible, the EVIDENCE lines up behind the Weavers.

    Even if you find them weird and icky.
    You're just throwing up another silly strawman. I never claimed that the Weavers were lying. Why do you keep suggesting that I did? What I said is that there is no definitive way to tell who's lying, and thus we have to judge based on other factors. You suggest that there's no reason to question the Weavers' credibility. The facts suggest that they are bizarre family living off in the woods and are severely paranoid about the U.S. government and have some disturbing ideas about race and separatism. They are perfectly entitled to have those views, but I think it's also perfectly reasonable to conclude that these unusual views make their judgment suspect.

    OTOH, there is also reason to be skeptical of the ATF's actions and their account of events. Even in view of that, however, I find it unlikely that the ATF agents failed to identify themselves before opening fire. Doesn't mean it didn't happen that way, but I find it more likely than not that the kids of the paranoid couple living in the woods overreacted than it is likely that federal agents who are trained to indentify themselves and say, "throw down your weapons" completely ignored their training.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  10. #350
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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You're just throwing up another silly strawman. I never claimed that the Weavers were lying. Why do you keep suggesting that I did? What I said is that there is no definitive way to tell who's lying, and thus we have to judge based on other factors. You suggest that there's no reason to question the Weavers' credibility. The facts suggest that they are bizarre family living off in the woods and are severely paranoid about the U.S. government and have some disturbing ideas about race and separatism. They are perfectly entitled to have those views, but I think it's also perfectly reasonable to conclude that these unusual views make their judgment suspect.

    OTOH, there is also reason to be skeptical of the ATF's actions and their account of events. Even in view of that, however, I find it unlikely that the ATF agents failed to identify themselves before opening fire. Doesn't mean it didn't happen that way, but I find it more likely than not that the kids of the paranoid couple living in the woods overreacted than it is likely that federal agents who are trained to indentify themselves and say, "throw down your weapons" completely ignored their training.
    The rules of engagement were changed and other agents that were on the scene describe what happened as to be the same version as Weaver's. That is why Harris was acquitted. The agents were afraid because of bogus information that Weaver had a stockpile of weapons up there and he was crazy to bring down the government. The agents acted out of fear.

    He wanted to live there with his family and read scripture that would affirm his and Vicki's beliefs. He was to be harm to anyone.

    He went to a couple Aryan Nation meetings to see what it was about and never joined. The idea of SEPARATING the races is not that uncommon, the idea is that conflict will be avoided. They reject white supremacy.

    Side note: there are Black Separatists as well who have the same ideas, so why is it bad that a white man has that idea?

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

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