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Thread: Explosive Growth of Militias

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Hey man- my own views are those of the founding fathers. That puts me in pretty damn good company.
    and yet, gun rights isn't mentioned ONCE, in the DoI.

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Rise! Rise! Rise my friend from the shackles of ignorance!

    Powder Alarm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The removal of gunpowder, though false alarm was thought of as a trigger to the revolutionary war.


    The Good Reverend has delivered you from darkness into the light. Praise him! Praise him! For he is good!
    Haha! That's like saying the Libyan war was about gun control because we first went in took out their ammo dumps.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    and yet, gun rights isn't mentioned ONCE, in the DoI.
    Wow. I wonder why gun rights were mentioned in the BOR rather than the declaration? Jeez- what were they thinking?
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by MKULTRABOY View Post
    I don't think the epitome of patriot was attacking the government when the nation was founded.
    Really? And exactly how did the US become an independent nation? Could not of been people who considered themselves Patriots that attacked the existing British government, could it? Our Founding Fathers very much believed in violent revolution to over-throw unjust rule, if they hadn't, we would all still be British citizens not Americans. These people who are idolized as the epitome of Patriotism in America were in fact rebels against the then existing government.

    The founding fathers also recognised the possiblity that tyranny and an unjust government may once again arise and included the right to keep and bear arms as a means of stopping it. The rise of militias to return to America a just and constitutional government if the government seized enough power to start deny fundimental rights, siezing properties and many other similar things that were happening in America at the time of the revolution is exactly what they envisioned and made allowances for. And of course, any government, so accused, would deny these claims of unconstitionality and being unjust and would indeed claim that those militias were acting illegally and not in accordance with the constitution.

    Are these groups right in their exertion that the government has now become unconstitional and unjust? Just like in 1776, each and every citizen will have to make that determination on their own, chose their side and live with the consequences of their choice.

    While I may not support violent actions against the government, I can forsee a time when it may indeed become necessary. If violence were to escalate into a new revolution in the near future, I would definitely have to chose the side opposing Obama and the Democrats agendas, but until that time I can still work for a peaceful settlement of the differences. While many of these groups may be "nuts", not every point they bring up is inaccurate or wrong. Partisanship has been growing in this country for more than a decade. We have been becoming more and more divided and whether today or in the future, at some point, these divisions are going to break out into violence. I am not overly concerned about the radical fringe groups, I am more concerned with just how wide that "fringe" is becoming. Just how wide, consider this, Texas Governor Rick Perry made a quip about Texas re-establishing it's independence, he won by a landslide in his re-election bid and the subject of Texas indepence once relegated to a few "nut jobs" became a common and regular subject of conversation. Is there enough effort so far to actually see a break, probably not, but then I wouldn't bet anything on it either.

    What these groups lack and what prevents them from being a real danger is the lack of coherent leadership with a widely accepted agenda. Without that leadership and plan, they are nothing but widely dispersed small groups that have a limited ability to cause real harm. The potential harm, at least economically, that these groups are currently capable of doing would not equal in a decade what enviro-terriost cost us in a year. Funny how the article doesn't bring those nut jobs up or the amount of damage they cause every year. But then again, I guess if you are supporting the Democrats, burning houses and apartments being build, destroying forestry equipment and throwing paint or blood on people wearing furs or leather is justifiable and not dangerous or damaging.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Haha! That's like saying the Libyan war was about gun control because we first went in took out their ammo dumps.


    /facepalm /facepalm


    I think i'll have a double. : :
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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    I'm not sure what the debate really is. Some people get together and call themselves a "militia." So what? We could call debatepolitics.com a "militia" and it wouldn't mean anything but a word. "Militia" as defined in the Constitution refers to independent volunteer military groups serving the government in time of war. Nothing else.

    Gun clubs calling themselves "militias" has nothing to do with the Constitution. It's just a word.

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    and here we have the Libertarian version of the American War for Independence.

    Apparently, you do not know what sparked Lexington and Concord, and the very "shot heard 'round the world."
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    You're either being disingenuous or you need to study history a bit more. At least one of the earliest actual battles was fought because the British forces were moving to seize a militia armory and confiscate the weapons and powder stored there.

    The war was not about gun control, but the oppressors' first overt move was an attempt to remove effective military arms from the citizenry.
    It's what sparked the actual war, yes.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Hey man- my own views are those of the founding fathers. That puts me in pretty damn good company.
    Not mention that if you were to classify the founders today, you'd put them in the libertarian camp, so the "libertarian version" of the Revolution is kind of a redundancy in terms.

    (Unless you choose to look at it from the British point of view, of course.)
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Explosive Growth of Militias

    A militia does not have to be an arm of the government.
    Justice Antonin Scalia, writing for the majority in District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), stated:
    Nowhere else in the Constitution does a “right” attributed to “the people” refer to anything other than an individual right. What is more, in all six other provisions of the Constitution that mention “the people,” the term unambiguously refers to all members of the political community, not an unspecified subset. This contrasts markedly with the phrase “the militia” in the prefatory clause. As we will describe below, the “militia” in colonial America consisted of a subset of “the people”— those who were male, able bodied, and within a certain age range. Reading the Second Amendment as protecting only the right to “keep and bear Arms” in an organized militia therefore fits poorly with the operative clause’s description of the holder of that right as “the people”
    n Heller, the U.S. Supreme Court stated that "[t]he adjective 'well-regulated' implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didn’t have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, I’m allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and I’ve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I don’t, before you know it, you won’t let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

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