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Barack Obama pushes for $1bn green tax credits

Do you have some magic oil beans that you wish to try? The fact is we have used up most of the cheap oil in the US. That is why we fight middle east wars to keep their oil flowing to the world market.

There has not been a single year since 1971 that we have produced as much oil as we consume, regardless of which party was in control of the government.

As Cheney and the Energy Task Force put it in their report, STRATEGIC ENERGY POLICY CHALLENGES FOR THE 21ST CENTURY when they recommended invasion of Iraq:

"Dependence is so incredibly large, and growing so inexorably, that national autonomy is simply
not a viable goal. In the global economy, it may not even be a desirable one."

Another argument for more oil. What evidence do you have that most the cheap oil in the US has been used? So what if it has? What does that have to do with preventing people from trying?
 
LOL, fracture based mining....heard of it?

The Bakka formation is about to pass Alaska in oil capacity. Magic beans indeed.

Fuel Fix » North Dakota oil production
ND is producing 450k barrels a day and there are similar formation all over the midwest with mixes of natural gas, about 1/5th if I read right.


Yeah, I've heard of it, and know that is not cost competitive with cheap middle east oil, which why we still import more than half our oil.
 
Another argument for more oil. What evidence do you have that most the cheap oil in the US has been used?


The fact there has not been a single year since 1971 that we could produce as much oil as we consume regardless of the party in control of government.


So what if it has? What does that have to do with preventing people from trying?

Knock yourself out, it the meantime we need to develop alternatives.
 
Now is not the time to be putting out that kind of money. We don't have the vehicles to utilize this infrastructure. We should wait till they arrive and are affordable to the masses, which won't be for a long time.

In the meantime, Obama should be concentrating on the effects of high gas prices on our citizens right now. I don't think he will, though.

A billion dollars or more wasted on Solyndra, Ener1, SpectraWatt, Evergreen, Axiom and Beacon.

My signature line tell why Obama won't.



In this week's address, Chairman of the Natural Resources Committee Doc Hastings (R-WA) discusses how the president is unwilling to work toward energy independence in our nation. Gas prices are on the rise again, and our current administration has given no impression that they're serious about lowering our energy costs and creating much-needed jobs. House Republicans are working to open domestic energy production and ease the burden on small businesses so they can grow and hire again. It's all part of our plan at GOP.gov - The Website of the Republican Majority in Congress
 
The increase in gas prices involves supply and demand issues coming to a head at a planetary level.

In April, 2010 the US Military warned that:

"as early as 2015, the shortfall in output could reach nearly 10 million barrels per day," says the report, which has a foreword by a senior commander, General James N Mattis."

US military warns oil output may dip causing massive shortages by 2015 | Business | The Guardian

Here's a good summary of the situation.



Where did they dig him up from the 1970's? LOLOLOL!

Jimmy Carter delivered this televised speech on April 18, 1977.

Because we are now running out of gas and oil, we must prepare quickly for a third change, to strict conservation and to the use of coal and permanent renewable energy sources, like solar power.

World consumption of oil is still going up. If it were possible to keep it rising during the 1970s and 1980s by 5 percent a year as it has in the past, we could use up all the proven reserves of oil in the entire world by the end of the next decade.

Proposed Energy Policy . Jimmy Carter . WGBH American Experience | PBS

Yep, could they have been more wrong? Here we are 40 years later and their predictions of oil running out is still just a fantasy. The video of your re-animated Carter like crony is just hilarious though and good for a great laugh.
 
Where did they dig him up from the 1970's? LOLOLOL!

Yep, could they have been more wrong? Here we are 40 years later and their predictions of oil running out is still just a fantasy. The video of your re-animated Carter like crony is just hilarious though and good for a great laugh.

And have the gas prices gone down or up since Carter? Just because its taken longer to get there doesn't mean we have dodged the inevitable bullet. As Republican Senator noted recently, "Jimmy Carter was right!"

If we had listened to Carter, we wouldn't be whining about high gas prices now or about to face prices 3 times this high within a couple more years.

The US military uses more oil than any other single entity on the planet, so I take their warning much more seriously than an opinion from an anonymous internet guy. Sorry.
 
And have the gas prices gone down or up since Carter? Just because its taken longer to get there doesn't mean we have dodged the inevitable bullet. As Republican Senator noted recently, "Jimmy Carter was right!"

If we had listened to Carter, we wouldn't be whining about high gas prices now or about to face prices 3 times this high within a couple more years.

The US military uses more oil than any other single entity on the planet, so I take their warning much more seriously than an opinion from an anonymous internet guy. Sorry.

We did listen to Carter and got near 50% of our electricity from Coal, is that a good thing or bad?

Point four: I'm asking Congress to mandate, to require as a matter of law, that our nation's utility companies cut their massive use of oil by 50 percent within the next decade and switch to other fuels, especially coal, our most abundant energy source.

You know we can do it. We have the natural resources. We have more oil in our shale alone than several Saudi Arabias. We have more coal than any nation on Earth.

Crisis of Confidence . Jimmy Carter . WGBH American Experience | PBS

In 2000, the existing capacity1 of U.S. electric utilities totaled 604,514 megawatts (Table 1), a net change of -34,810 megawatts (-5.4 percent) from the total reported in 1999. This was mainly due to the sale/transfer of 42,974 megawatts of capacity during 2000 to nonutilities. Based on primary energy source, coal-fired capacity represented 43 percent (260,990 megawatts) of the Nation's existing capacity (Figure 1). Gas-fired capacity accounted for 19 percent (117,845 megawatts); nuclear, 14 percent (86,163 megawatts); renewable energy sources, 12 percent (74,575 megawatts); petroleum, 7 percent (41,017 megawatts); and pumped storage hydroelectric, 3 percent (18,020 megawatts).

U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

As far as I can see the country DID follow his energy plan, coal fired capacity represented 43 percent of the Nations electricity production, natural gas at 19 percent and petroeum behind renewable at 7 percent.

Here is brother Jimmy in his own words promoting the increased use of coal....It come at the end of the windbags speech so be patient, it's worth it.

President Carter's Address to the Nation On Energy Policy



Point four: I'm asking Congress to mandate, to require as a matter of law, that our nation's utility companies cut their massive use of oil by 50 percent within the next decade and switch to other fuels, especially coal, our most abundant energy source.

You know we can do it. We have the natural resources. We have more oil in our shale alone than several Saudi Arabias. We have more coal than any nation on Earth.

Crisis of Confidence . Jimmy Carter . WGBH American Experience | PBS

As far as I can see the country DID follow his energy plan, coal fired capacity represented 43 percent of the Nations electricity production and petroleum behind renewable at 7 percent. Carter's responsible for a lot of the Global warming they expect us to pay to fix right now....some visionary!
 
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We did listen to Carter and got near 50% of our electricity from Coal, is that a good thing or bad?



In 2000, the existing capacity1 of U.S. electric utilities totaled 604,514 megawatts (Table 1), a net change of -34,810 megawatts (-5.4 percent) from the total reported in 1999. This was mainly due to the sale/transfer of 42,974 megawatts of capacity during 2000 to nonutilities. Based on primary energy source, coal-fired capacity represented 43 percent (260,990 megawatts) of the Nation's existing capacity (Figure 1). Gas-fired capacity accounted for 19 percent (117,845 megawatts); nuclear, 14 percent (86,163 megawatts); renewable energy sources, 12 percent (74,575 megawatts); petroleum, 7 percent (41,017 megawatts); and pumped storage hydroelectric, 3 percent (18,020 megawatts).

U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

As far as I can see the country DID follow his energy plan, coal fired capacity represented 43 percent of the Nations electricity production, natural gas at 19 percent and petroeum behind renewable at 7 percent.

Here is brother Jimmy in his own words promoting the increased use of coal....It come at the end of the windbags speech so be patient, it's worth it.

President Carter's Address to the Nation On Energy Policy





As far as I can see the country DID follow his energy plan, coal fired capacity represented 43 percent of the Nations electricity production and petroleum behind renewable at 7 percent. Carter's responsible for a lot of the Global warming they expect us to pay to fix right now....some visionary!


Is that all you know of Carter's Energy plan, just one piece of it? No surprise then that you have a skewed view.

Carter also promoted and was providing funding for research and development of alternative energies such as solar, wind, nuclear, biofuels, as well as coal. An all of the above approach. However, all that, except coal was dropped when the big energy companies got Reagan elected and he ended carter's alternative energy programs. Reagan even took the solar panels down from the White House.

So you are wrong. We didn't follow Carter's plan. Reagan said to party like it was 1959! Now we will pay for failing to heed the warnings.

Karma is a Bitch!

Happy motoring!
 
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Is that all you know of Carter's Energy plan, just one piece of it? No surprise then that you have a skewed view.

Carter also promoted and was providing funding for research and development of alternative energies such as solar, wind, nuclear, biofuels, as well as coal. An all of the above approach. However, all that, except coal was dropped when the big energy companies got Reagan elected and he ended carter's alternative energy programs.

So you are wrong. We didn't follow Carter's plan. Reagan said to party like it was 1959! Now we will pay for failing to heed the warnings.

Karma is a Bitch!

Happy motoring!

I know all that and it all FAILED. As well as Carter's coal agenda. Do you know many of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, somehow expecting different results.
 
I know all that and it all FAILED. As well as Carter's coal agenda. Do you know many of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, somehow expecting different results.

It didn't fail, it was cut off by the oil president, and replaced with Reaganomics which has worked out swimmingly for the working class over the last 30 years, don't you know. I'm sure they will be delighted to let that same dog bite them again! :roll:
 
Which is why we should produce MORE. Actually, we should produce more because it would create jobs, wealth, and energy. And its the right of the citizens who own the resources to use them as they see fit. I have yet to see you explain why not.

Talk to the oil companies, 60% of the onshore leases and 70% of the off shore leases aren't being utilized. I suppose we could start USOCO
 
It didn't fail, it was cut off by the oil president, and replaced with Reaganomics which has worked out swimmingly for the working class over the last 30 years, don't you know. I'm sure they will be delighted to let that same dog bite them again! :roll:

You seem so knowledgeable regarding what Carter and Reagan did, please post a link to your assertion Reagan "cut off" programs started by Carter.
 
The fact there has not been a single year since 1971 that we could produce as much oil as we consume regardless of the party in control of government.




Knock yourself out, it the meantime we need to develop alternatives.

Knock yourself out. Sounds like we're in agreement that the conservative solution of exploiting all energy is the best way to go. So lets open ANWAR and the gulf.
 
Talk to the oil companies, 60% of the onshore leases and 70% of the off shore leases aren't being utilized. I suppose we could start USOCO

Just got off the phone with the oil companies. They said theres no oil or its too expensive to extract from the leases available to them. But that theres probably lots of oil in areas the govt wont let them use.
 
Just got off the phone with the oil companies. They said theres no oil or its too expensive to extract from the leases available to them. But that theres probably lots of oil in areas the govt wont let them use.

Too ****ing bad when we start having oil rigs right next to Old Faithful we've sold ourselves to the devil.

Why did they buy them in the 1st place?
 
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You seem so knowledgeable regarding what Carter and Reagan did, please post a link to your assertion Reagan "cut off" programs started by Carter.

The simplest example would be Reagan removed the solar panels from the White House.
 
Too ****ing bad when we start having oil rigs right next to Old Faithful we've sold ourselves to the devil.

Why did they buy them in the 1st place?

Its called research. They have to lease it so they can do more complex surveys to determine if its worth developing further. Your environmental argument is valid though, and worthy of debate. Its simply not the argument being made here by oil critics. Theres an environmental argument to be made against alternatives as well. Windmills kill animals. Hydro blocks fish spawning. Solar takes up tons of land and uses rare metals. Nuclear produces waste. Natural gas requires drilling. Hydrogen is risky and requires electricty to create (which comes from coal).
 
Knock yourself out. Sounds like we're in agreement that the conservative solution of exploiting all energy is the best way to go. So lets open ANWAR and the gulf.

ANWR would change the price of a barrel of oil by about 21 cents by the year 2025, and they are already drilling in the Gulf. The US has the highest production in oil in the last decade, how much has that lowered the cost of oil on the world market???
 
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You seem so knowledgeable regarding what Carter and Reagan did, please post a link to your assertion Reagan "cut off" programs started by Carter.

"President Reagan is the “culprit in chief” when it comes to the “current energy debacle” explained Richard Cohen in his 2008 piece “Wish Upon a Pump.” I could not agree more.

Reagan is a key reason we have only about one-sixth of the soaring global market for windpower “” an industry we once dominated: “President Reagan cut the renewable energy R&D budget 85% after he took office and eliminated the wind investment tax credit in 1986. This was pretty much the death of most of the US wind industry” (see “Anti-wind McCain delivers climate remarks at foreign wind company“). Same for solar power.

Indeed, Reagan gutted Carter’s entire multi-billion dollar clean energy and energy efficiency effort. He opposed and then rolled back fuel economy standards"

Reagan Redux: The Gipper helped save the ozone layer but almost single-handedly ruined Americas leadership in clean energy | ThinkProgress
 
ANWR would change the price of a barrel of oil by about 21 cents by the year 2025, and they are already drilling in the Gulf. The US has the highest production in oil in the last decade, how much has that lowered the cost of oil on the world market???

So you know what the price of oil will be in 2025?

Can you tell me what it will be in August? I'd like to do some speculating.
 
ANWR would change the price of a barrel of oil by about 21 cents by the year 2025, and they are already drilling in the Gulf. The US has the highest production in oil in the last decade, how much has that lowered the cost of oil on the world market???

50 cents versus not increasing production.
 
So you know what the price of oil will be in 2025?

I know how little the drilling in ANWR would lower the price. That's one of the reasons that John McCain and other Republicans voted against drilling in ANWR, when they were in control of the White House and both Houses of Congress.

McCain said: “We ought not drill in the Everglades, we ought not drill in the Grand Canyon, we ought not drill in ANWR.”
Say Anything » Senator Byron Dorgan Tries To Justify His Opposition To Drilling For Oil In ANWR » Say Anything
 
50 cents versus not increasing production.

How did you translate a savings of 21 cents a barrel of oil to 50 cents less a gallon of gas at the pump? And you have also forgotten to factor in the increased demand by 2025 which will have increased the price of oil far beyond the 21 cents a barrel. So you will not only have spoiled one of the our greatest national reserves for nothing, but we will have wasted precious time and resources developing alternative energy.

Little wonder the Republicans decided against it when they were in complete control.
 
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