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Thread: Liberal Congressman Kucinich defeated in Ohio

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    Re: Liberal Congressman Kucinich defeated in Ohio

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Nope, he was defeated by a war-mongering neocon-friendly bimbo. . .

    Marcy Kaptur: Campaign Finance/Money - Top Donors - Representative 2012 | OpenSecrets
    I always knew there was a reason I could stand Marcy.

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    Re: Liberal Congressman Kucinich defeated in Ohio

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Nope, he was defeated by a war-mongering neocon-friendly bimbo. . .

    Marcy Kaptur: Campaign Finance/Money - Top Donors - Representative 2012 | OpenSecrets
    So...someone very much like Obama then? Well...then she should support him well...

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    Re: Liberal Congressman Kucinich defeated in Ohio

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Nope, he was defeated by a war-mongering neocon-friendly bimbo. . .

    Marcy Kaptur: Campaign Finance/Money - Top Donors - Representative 2012 | OpenSecrets
    "Bimbo"? Really?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Liberal Congressman Kucinich defeated in Ohio

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    "Bimbo"? Really?
    No...he meant 'slut'...

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    Re: Liberal Congressman Kucinich defeated in Ohio

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    This amazes me! Actually it insults me as it should insult anyone else who can read and think at the same time. In the OP is the following sentence: . Now Ockham either didn't read the OP, didn't understand the OP (both likely), or decided to misrepresent the OP because it suits his disgusting and slavish attraction to the GOP (very likely). No matter, what we do know is that Ockham was either dropped on his head at a very young age or that he is purposely deceitful, and would obviously misrepresent the truth than acknowledge it. Here is what Ockham said directly under the OP: And there is it for all to see.

    I have never thought there was a great deal of veracity in the "chemtrails to dumb down the locals" myth. Then again I see something like the above and I wonder. Blind partisanship is the answer. I've seen it on both sides. Not all partisans are blind and thankfully there may be fewer partisans than there used to be. It make sense that both factions of Corpgov, Republicans and Democrats, would be losing supporters. Half the people in America fall below the median IQ.
    My mistake - point ceded... Republicans reshuffled the boundary according to the article. Granted, I must have glazed over that portion. Now you're free to unleash the diarrhea of GOP blame for moonbat Kucinich's loss. Make sure to turn in your pissant victory to your DNC overloard, as there's a little propaganda bonus in there from "Fight the smears".
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Liberal Congressman Kucinich defeated in Ohio

    No Barney Frank, no Kucinich, no Dodd, no Snowe ().....what's happening to all the liberals?

    If Pelosi, Reid, Biden, and Obama leave, too, who are we going to stuff in the trash cans at school? Wasserman is too easy.

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    Re: Liberal Congressman Kucinich defeated in Ohio

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I dont know that there is ever a perfect system. ANY changes will cause some to shriek and scream and cry foul. Someone is ALWAYS impacted.
    True, but some ways are fairer and more impartial than others. And allowing partisan legislators to draw up legislative districts has to be one of the worst ways to do it. A computer program is relatively impartial...you just feed it the parameters that are agreed upon, and it produces a map. Or better yet, it produces several maps, and each party takes turns eliminating a map until there is only one map left.

    Regardless...Kucenich was defeated by a very liberal candidate...hence we can only assume the DEMOCRATS that voted for her believe she is a better candidate.
    The issue isn't that the people of the district preferred one or the other of them. The issue is that the district was specifically drawn to produce the desired result.
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    Re: Liberal Congressman Kucinich defeated in Ohio

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    True, but some ways are fairer and more impartial than others. And allowing partisan legislators to draw up legislative districts has to be one of the worst ways to do it. A computer program is relatively impartial...you just feed it the parameters that are agreed upon, and it produces a map. Or better yet, it produces several maps, and each party takes turns eliminating a map until there is only one map left.



    The issue isn't that the people of the district preferred one or the other of them. The issue is that the district was specifically drawn to produce the desired result.
    Who agrees on the parameters? Id like to say we could just trust a non-partisan committee to oversee redistricting wherever it should be needed...but...what do you suppose the odds of that EVER happening would be? it doesnt matter who the party in charge is...they will both act in a manner they justify. Id be interested to see what the computer redistricting boundaries would look like...and immediately afterward who would cry foul.

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    Re: Liberal Congressman Kucinich defeated in Ohio

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Who agrees on the parameters?
    Depends on the state, and how they currently do their redistricting. In some states, it might require a constitutional amendment approved by the voters. In other states, it might simply take an act of the General Assembly to delegate the parameter-setting responsibility to an independent committee.

    Id like to say we could just trust a non-partisan committee to oversee redistricting wherever it should be needed...but...what do you suppose the odds of that EVER happening would be?
    We have independent committees for other things where legislators can't be trusted to be impartial: Military base closures, monetary policy, etc. So it is possible to get them to give up some of their power under certain circumstances.

    it doesnt matter who the party in charge is...they will both act in a manner they justify.
    That's a problem that having the districts drawn by a computer program would help fix.

    Id be interested to see what the computer redistricting boundaries would look like...and immediately afterward who would cry foul.
    As I see it, the process toward keeping bias out, and making the map nonpartisan, would go something like this :

    1) The legislature establishes an independent, nonpartisan committee to negotiate the parameters of the districts. And if they're feeling ambitious, they also forbid the committee from using certain parameters historically associated with gerrymandering.

    2) The committee sets the parameters for how the districts should be drawn. They would be able to draw upon the studies of good-governance watchdog groups to help them.

    3) The agreed-upon parameters are fed into a computer program. The program then proceeds to randomly draw up any number of possible maps...say, 10 of them.

    4) The leaders of each party take turns eliminating one of the maps until only one remains. This will tend to produce a result near the middle of what could be expected by chance (i.e. something reasonably fair). It eliminates the possibility that the resulting map is lopsided in one party's favor strictly by chance.

    5) The agreed upon map becomes the basis for the new congressional districts, and remains in place until after the next census. Meanwhile, the good governance watchdogs could study the parameters they used and measure how well they work, so the next time around they could be even better.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-08-12 at 03:27 PM.
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    Re: Liberal Congressman Kucinich defeated in Ohio

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Depends on the state, and how they currently do their redistricting. In some states, it might require a constitutional amendment approved by the voters. In other states, it might simply take an act of the General Assembly to delegate the parameter-setting responsibility to an independent committee.



    We have independent committees for other things where legislators can't be trusted to be impartial: Military base closures, monetary policy, etc. So it is possible to get them to give up some of their power under certain circumstances.



    That's a problem that having the districts drawn by a computer program would help fix.



    As I see it, the process toward keeping bias out, and making the map nonpartisan, would go something like this :

    1) The legislature establishes an independent, nonpartisan committee to negotiate the parameters of the districts. And if they're feeling ambitious, they also forbid the committee from using certain parameters historically associated with gerrymandering.

    2) The committee sets the parameters for how the districts should be drawn. They would be able to draw upon the studies of good-governance watchdog groups to help them.

    3) The agreed-upon parameters are fed into a computer program. The program then proceeds to randomly draw up any number of possible maps...say, 10 of them.

    4) The leaders of each party take turns eliminating one of the maps until only one remains. This will tend to produce a result near the middle of what could be expected by chance (i.e. something reasonably fair). It eliminates the possibility that the resulting map is lopsided in one party's favor strictly by chance.

    5) The agreed upon map becomes the basis for the new congressional districts, and remains in place until after the next census. Meanwhile, the good governance watchdogs could study the parameters they used and measure how well they work, so the next time around they could be even better.
    4 is where you lose me. Thats a pretty good indicator that it is still bias driven...it just lands with the 'least' bias...or rather...ends when people run out of chances to pick a map that better suits their philosophy.

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