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Racist? Texas high school apologizes for fans' 'USA!' chant after basketball game

muciti said:
Obviously we don't both know what their intent was. Also you are not answering my question.
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Well of course you're unable to see the intent, since you make an effort to ignore the contexts described to you multiple times.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I don't think they lack an understanding of context. They just don't want to see it because they refuse to see past the fact that people are being criticized for chanting "USA" First and foremost, they see that as people being punished for being patriotic. The reason behind them chanting "USA" doesn't even enter into it for them. However, in situations that suit them better, they are all about context. Sadly, the same goes for the other side. They aren't called "partisan blinders" for nothing.
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Just curious, now that more than the initial piss poor reporting of the story has had a chance to be exposed. Does the fact that the USA chant has been made at every single game the Mules have played all year make any difference? If in fact the chant "Alamo Whites" was being chanted at the Alamo Heights team, does that have any bearing or "racist" connotations? Probably not, though I do believe Dr_Patrick has hit the proverbial nail upon the head.
 
Gie said:
Just curious, now that more than the initial piss poor reporting of the story has had a chance to be exposed. Does the fact that the USA chant has been made at every single game the Mules have played all year make any difference? If in fact the chant "Alamo Whites" was being chanted at the Alamo Heights team, does that have any bearing or "racist" connotations? Probably not, though I do believe Dr_Patrick has hit the proverbial nail upon the head.
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First, I'd like to understand why they are using USA as a chant, simply because it is highly irregular. It doesn't show school spirit, it doesn't show support for their team, and it doesn't make sense at school sporting events like these.

Second, even if the chanting of USA is used regularly at all their games, Edison wouldn't be privy to that knowledge. So when the chanting began, Edison students retaliated. I'm not trying to excuse them because there is no excuse, but it would certainly explain the intent behind Edison's chant. Edison students thought the chant meant that they were saying they are better Americans than they were, and Edison used "Alamo Whites" to call the other side racist (stereotypical white racist; white power).
 
Lightdemon said:
First, I'd like to understand why they are using USA as a chant, simply because it is highly irregular. It doesn't show school spirit, it doesn't show support for their team, and it doesn't make sense at school sporting events like these.

Second, even if the chanting of USA is used regularly at all their games, Edison wouldn't be privy to that knowledge. So when the chanting began, Edison students retaliated. I'm not trying to excuse them because there is no excuse, but it would certainly explain the intent behind Edison's chant. Edison students thought the chant meant that they were saying they are better Americans than they were, and Edison used "Alamo Whites" to call the other side racist (stereotypical white racist; white power).
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Chanting USA is not irregular. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a pride in one's country. It seems like you only agree with that when it any country other than the United States.
 
This reminds me of that one incident where a lesbian had her young son say something critical to Michelle Bachmann. Both sides didn't know the exact intent; people on the right tended to say that the mother put her son up to doing it to make a political point. However, the right had no proof and could only speculate.

And now we have this incident, where it's the left making accusations without proof, but instead speculating.

Partisans.
 
justabubba said:
according to google maps, these two high schools are 3.5 miles apart
yet one is predominantly white and the other hispanic
THAT is the underlying problem
we have allowed our schools to become re-segregated
those with political influence direct the drawing of the school attendance boundary lines
we gerrymander school attendance areas just as we gerrymander political districts
and then we are alarmed by a result such as this
so much for a melting pot. it's actually the un-melding of America
say it with me
USA! USA! USA!


proud yet?!
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Look as they say, before you leap. As Harry Guerrilla pointed out there is no gerrymandering. Alamo Heights is one of the oldest neighborhoods in San Antonio and its own city, with its own police force, city hall, mayor, etc, etc. When it was established it was considered on the edge of town, out in the sticks. In succeeding generations San Antonio grew up literally "around" Alamo Heights 360 degrees "around" it to draw a picture.

And just for clarification, the term "Alamo Whites" has been a slur/insult, or joke depending upon *context* for a long long time. The fans of Edison who were chanting "Alamo Whites" at the game knew what they were saying and they were not trying to be complementary.

Urban Dictionary: Alamo Whites

Since virtually all reports put all chants at the game as coming from the stands, not the bench or from the teams themselves, blaming the teams and more particularly, the student team members and punishing them for the actions and words coming from the stands is not only grossly unfair, but just plain stupid.

Lightdemon said:
First, I'd like to understand why they are using USA as a chant, simply because it is highly irregular. It doesn't show school spirit, it doesn't show support for their team, and it doesn't make sense at school sporting events like these.

Second, even if the chanting of USA is used regularly at all their games, Edison wouldn't be privy to that knowledge. So when the chanting began, Edison students retaliated. I'm not trying to excuse them because there is no excuse, but it would certainly explain the intent behind Edison's chant. Edison students thought the chant meant that they were saying they are better Americans than they were, and Edison used "Alamo Whites" to call the other side racist (stereotypical white racist; white power).
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Could you please share a link that details this timeline you speak to? If this is all just a misunderstanding as you suggest, then it should be easy to weed out all the "racist" arguments and stop trying to assign blame for this on the teenagers that were there that day, just to play a sport.
 
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Gie said:
Look as they say, before you leap. As Harry Guerrilla pointed out there is no gerrymandering. Alamo Heights is one of the oldest neighborhoods in San Antonio and its own city, with its own police force, city hall, mayor, etc, etc. When it was established it was considered on the edge of town, out in the sticks. In succeeding generations San Antonio grew up literally "around" Alamo Heights 360 degrees "around" it to draw a picture.

And just for clarification, the term "Alamo Whites" has been a slur/insult, or joke depending upon *context* for a long long time. The fans of Edison who were chanting "Alamo Whites" at the game knew what they were saying and they were not trying to be complementary.

Urban Dictionary: Alamo Whites

Since virtually all reports put all chants at the game as coming from the stands, not the bench or from the teams themselves, blaming the teams and more particularly, the student team members and punishing them for the actions and words coming from the stands is not only grossly unfair, but just plain stupid.


Could you please share a link that details this timeline you speak to?
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So some were chanting "Alamo Whites," and others were chanting "USA"?

If so, that changes things, a lot, and that apology on account of the coach needs to be redacted.
 
Wake said:
So some were chanting "Alamo Whites," and others were chanting "USA"?

If so, that changes things, a lot, and that apology on account of the coach needs to be redacted.
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I disagree, I think the coach did the right and classy thing and the only thing that should be withdrawn is the complaint that officials at Edison filed against the Mules team and Alamo Height High School. It was Mules fans that were chanting USA as they have at every game this season. The teams, both of them, were there to play ball and did. Blaming the schools or the teams for the actions of fans and members of the public who were in the stands is wrong.
 
muciti said:
Chanting USA is not irregular. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a pride in one's country. It seems like you only agree with that when it any country other than the United States.
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You're telling me if you walked into a high school game tonight, you'll here either team chant USA?
 
Gie said:
I disagree, I think the coach did the right and classy thing and the only thing that should be withdrawn is the complaint that officials at Edison filed against the Mules team and Alamo Height High School. It was Mules fans that were chanting USA as they have at every game this season. The teams, both of them, were there to play ball and did. Blaming the schools or the teams for the actions of fans and members of the public who were in the stands is wrong.
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Alright. What do you think of this issue in general, because it seems there's new info and it's not clear to me what really went on.

If the Mules have been chanting "USA!" every game, why are we talking about this issue? If the other team was shouting "Alamo Whites," then both crowds were in the wrong.

Guess I'm trying to discern what actually happened.
 
Wake said:
If the Mules have been chanting "USA!" every game, why are we talking about this issue?
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The USA chant makes no sense. Are we celebrating the winning team as Americans? and yet the losing team is also American. Are we celebrating EVERYONE who participated? This seems counter-intuitive at any sporting events, especially if you're a fan of that team. Is playing basketball somehow patriotic, if so, I'm unaware of those connections to patriotism.
 
Lightdemon said:
The USA chant makes no sense. Are we celebrating the winning team as Americans? and yet the losing team is also American. Are we celebrating EVERYONE who participated? This seems counter-intuitive at any sporting events, especially if you're a fan of that team. Is playing basketball somehow patriotic, if so, I'm unaware of those connections to patriotism.
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It may not make sense, but that doesn't necessarily equate to racism, my friend.

If the mules have been chanting "USA!" throughout their basketball campaign, and that their opponents may have included various races, then there could not have been any racism.
 
Wake said:
It may not make sense, but that doesn't necessarily equate to racism, my friend.

If the mules have been chanting "USA!" throughout their basketball campaign, and that their opponents may have included various races, then there could not have been any racism.
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Or, they could have been telling everyone that Alamo Heights are better Americans than everyone else. Still bigotry.
 
Lightdemon said:
This link is also time-line relevant:
High School Chant of 'USA! USA! USA!' Deemed Racist - War On Patriotism - Fox Nation
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Examination of both your links does confirm that the "USA" chant has been in use all season long. I see nothing in either link about a time line of chronological events related to this story. So again, since the "USA" chant has been used all season long, this seems to be merely a misunderstanding if your suggested timeline is to be taken at face value. The reporter did a piss poor job IMO and is the person who assigned racist motives to the actions of some of the crowd. A good reporter probably would not have done that, a really good journalist would have included relevant facts such as those other reporters have brought forth subsequent to the initial "reporting" and I use that word with my tongue planted firmly in cheek.

Lightdemon said:
Or, they could have been telling everyone that Alamo Heights are better Americans than everyone else. Still bigotry.
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You have an odd understanding of the term Bigotry. So the next time I hear a sports team, or fans of a sports team, say they are #1 or are the best, or better than all the rest, I will what? Be seeing an example of bigotry? No of course I won't, that is just stupid.
 
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Lightdemon said:
Or, they could have been telling everyone that Alamo Heights are better Americans than everyone else. Still bigotry.
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So competition amongst competing teams is bigotry?

Am I a bigot for booing the Colts?
 
muciti said:
So you think a person having pride in their race or nationality makes them a racist?
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Any treatment of "race" as if it were real is racism, so YES, anyone expressing pride in their "race" is most definitely participating in racism.

Identifying the PERSON (as opposed to the action) as being a racist is quite another matter. I unclog my toilet from time to time, but I'm never mistaken for a plumber. To me, for someone to BE a racist is distinct from participating in racism. The vast overwhelming majority of people in the U.S. participate in racism. Only a select few within that pool, however, can be said to BE racists -- meaning people who go out of their way to treat "race" as if it were real in their social or professional role (and typically call for doing something about it). A random adult in damn near any city likely participates in racism. You have to look fairly hard, however, to find someone who IS a racist (that's their identity).

For me, such rare examples would include:

  • David Duke
  • Charles Murray
  • Louis Farrakhan
  • Julius Malema
  • Jared Taylor

etc.

Most participants in racism are complicit in -- rather than ideologically committed to -- racism. In other words, they go along with participating in racism because they have little to no means of easily accessing a nonracist alternative.

Moving on to the completely different issue of nationality, that requires a case-by-case analysis. Nationality is not the same thing as "race," nor even (as so frequently and falsely imagined) the same thing as one's country (which gets confusing, because there are some cases where it is officially treated as the same thing). Sometimes two or more of these coincide, sometimes they are different.

So is expression of "racial" pride automatically a racist sentiment/action? HELL yes. Is expression of nationalist pride automatically racist? No; we'd need more context.
 
Gie said:
Just curious, now that more than the initial piss poor reporting of the story has had a chance to be exposed. Does the fact that the USA chant has been made at every single game the Mules have played all year make any difference?
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A possible difference, yes...it means the situation may be even WORSE than first portrayed (i.e. that the implicit racism has been consistent rather than isolated).

Gie said:
If in fact the chant "Alamo Whites" was being chanted at the Alamo Heights team, does that have any bearing or "racist" connotations? Probably not, though I do believe Dr_Patrick has hit the proverbial nail upon the head.
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Chanting "Alamo Whites" is indeed racist...but that has no bearing on whether or not, and how, the "USA" chant was/is racist. It's not like they cancel out. Demonstrating racism on the part of the other team would not mean (1-1=0) zero instances of racism, but rather (1+1=2) TWO instances.
 
So San Antonio fans did chant "Alamo Whites."

The question is whether they chanted it first or not.

If San Antonio did chant that, then it could make sense that the "USA!" Chant was retaliation.

Otherwise, it could be that fans have been chanting "USA!" during each game, nullifying any mission of racism.
 
Gie said:
Examination of both your links does confirm that the "USA" chant has been in use all season long. I see nothing in either link about a time line of chronological events related to this story. So again, since the "USA" chant has been used all season long, this seems to be merely a misunderstanding if your suggested timeline is to be taken at face value. The reporter did a piss poor job IMO and is the person who assigned racist motives to the actions of some of the crowd. A good reporter probably would not have done that, a really good journalist would have included relevant facts such as those other reporters have brought forth subsequent to the initial "reporting" and I use that word with my tongue planted firmly in cheek.
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The claim that it being a chant used all season long is highly suspect. The Mules COACH was the one who stopped the audience chanting it. If it was in fact a chant used throughout the season, why did this coach seem to act as if it wasn't? If it was a regular thing, why did the coach reprimand the audience and put a stop to it?

Also, I thought when you said "timeline" you meant the events that happened during this particular game. As in when the Chants of USA and Alamo Whites began.

You have an odd understanding of the term Bigotry. So the next time I hear a sports team, or fans of a sports team, say they are #1 or are the best, or better than all the rest, I will what? Be seeing an example of bigotry? No of course I won't, that is just stupid.
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But that's not what is happening here. They are not chanting "Go Mules!" They are chanting USA, as if saying that their team is more American than the opposing team. If you chanted "Go Mules!", that's what the meaning behind that chant would translate to, no? That your team is better than the other?

The bigotry stems, not from them saying they are a better basketball team, but it comes from them claiming to be better Americans than the opposing team.
 
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Lightdemon said:
The claim that it being a chant used all season long is highly suspect. The Mules COACH was the one who stopped the audience chanting it. If it was in fact a chant used throughout the season, why did this coach seem to act as if it wasn't? If it was a regular thing, why did the coach reprimand the audience and put a stop to it?

Also, I thought when you said "timeline" you meant the events that happened during this particular game. As in when the Chants of USA and Alamo Whites began.



But that's not what is happening here. They are not chanting "Go Mules!" They are chanting USA, as if saying that their team is more American than the opposing team. If you chanted "Go Mules!", that's what the meaning behind that chant would translate to, no?

The bigotry stems, not from them saying they are a better basketball team, but it comes from them claiming to be better Americans than the opposing team.
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If we go by this timeline you suggested earlier, the coach would be stopping the chant because he was hearing the "Alamo Whites" chant and trying to diffuse a misunderstanding.

Your bigotry argument is less than persuasive and at odds with the definition of bigotry. Just saying. Words have meaning, much like timeline or chronological. If I had any idea I'd have to explain what "timeline" and "chronological" meant to you, in addition to "bigotry" I'd have spared myself wasting my time on the whole exercise. Try to keep up please?
 
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Gie said:
If we go by this timeline you suggested earlier, the coach would be stopping the chant because he was hearing the "Alamo Whites" chant and trying to diffuse a misunderstanding.
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Not according to the video in the link I posted. Did you watch it? Did you hear Alamo Whites before the USA chants?

Your bigotry argument is less than persuasive and at odds with the definition of bigotry. Just saying.
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How so?
 
Lightdemon said:
Not according to the video in the link I posted. Did you watch it? Did you hear Alamo Whites before the USA chants?



How so?
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First, go look up bigotry. Once you are familiar with the actual term and what it means, then try to make your argument jibe with what the word actually means. Second, your video contains no "timeline" or reference to any chronological order of events what so ever. You sure you are wide awake and not half asleep still?
 
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