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Thread: Racist? Texas high school apologizes for fans' 'USA!' chant after basketball game

  1. #271
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    Re: Racist? Texas high school apologizes for fans' 'USA!' chant after basketball game

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Actually, the bike flag story was not the one I was thinking of. My bad. It was this one;

    Students Kicked Off Campus for Wearing American Flag Tees | NBC Bay Area

    Where students were told that it was disrespectful to wear American flag t-shirts in an American school on Cinco de Mayo and made to go home to change. My question, at the time, was how is the American flag disrespectful to Mexico? We're not at war that I'm aware of or anything.
    Oh I remember this story, I didn't read your article but I read some in the past so correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't there a history of issues between the students (even during the prior year) and didn't students purposely plan to wear their shirts on this day?

    If that's true and I'm the principle I do the exact same thing for my school, I control my students, and avoid conflict especially when it seems to be a clear instigation. Also if this is a problem in my school the same rule goes in reverse on 4th of July etc and if its to bad there will be no wearing of flags in my school period.

    Now again that's in this case, I think everything is circumstantial, if I run a school that happens to wear american flags often, I do nothing about it.
    PURE STUPIDITY 1.) Glenn Beck doesnt lie. 2.) Obama is Jesus like 3.) Sara Palin is so smart & shes a great speaker. 4.) Obama does just about everything perfect. 5.) Fox doesn' t lean right 6.) Pro-Choice is no different than Pro-Slavery 7.) MSNBC doesn't lean left. 8.) What TSA does is no different than sexual assault & child porn.

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    Re: Racist? Texas high school apologizes for fans' 'USA!' chant after basketball game

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    I'm not sure anyone said it wasn't prejudice. All I've seen is not racist. All prejudice is not without basis. All racism is.
    Are you able to describe the prejudice? I'd like to hear what you say about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  3. #273
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    Re: Racist? Texas high school apologizes for fans' 'USA!' chant after basketball game

    Quote Originally Posted by O_Guru View Post
    Oh I remember this story, I didn't read your article but I read some in the past so correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't there a history of issues between the students (even during the prior year) and didn't students purposely plan to wear their shirts on this day?

    If that's true and I'm the principle I do the exact same thing for my school, I control my students, and avoid conflict especially when it seems to be a clear instigation. Also if this is a problem in my school the same rule goes in reverse on 4th of July etc and if its to bad there will be no wearing of flags in my school period.

    Now again that's in this case, I think everything is circumstantial, if I run a school that happens to wear american flags often, I do nothing about it.
    Oh, I'm sure the kids wore them on that day on purpose. Iirc, a couple had bandanas too. My question is far more fundamental. Why should the American flag be considered disrespectful to Mexico? Why would that be any kind of instigation, especially in the US?

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    Re: Racist? Texas high school apologizes for fans' 'USA!' chant after basketball game

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Did you read what I posted? I am arguing that this thing is not racist
    I didn't mean to sound as if I was arguing with you. I was attempting to continue your thought. Sorry.


    Quote Originally Posted by O_Guru View Post
    Racist? Yes definitely for "some" involved.
    Quote Originally Posted by O_Guru View Post
    This reminds me when morons were trolling sports boards in the past when Argentina won the Olympics for basketball. These numbnuts were posting "white power!!! Argentina beat those blacks!!!"

    This was the purest example of stupidity I've ever seen since anybody that is truly racist AND/OR educated understands that any country in SOUTH AMERICA isn't exactly "white"
    Respectfully, you might want to spend some time looking into the definitions of "race" versus "ethnicity" or "nationality" or "heritage", etc. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I'm pretty sure that while you fairly well demonstrated an example of someone being racist (cheering for a team of whites over blacks because of race), you also seem to be off a beat when you try to equate South America with being or not being Caucasian. Did you know that there are Caucasians in Africa, too?

    Clearly, the teenagers were being prejudicial based on "you're not from here" or "you're different" or "your parents are illegal" or even "we don't like the Hispanic culture", but until Latino/Hispanic is determined to be a race instead of an ethnicity, it's not racism.
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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    Re: Racist? Texas high school apologizes for fans' 'USA!' chant after basketball game

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Are you able to describe the prejudice? I'd like to hear what you say about it.
    I'm prejudice against anyone who isn't me. After all, I choose to treat everyone either better or worse than myself based on their value compared to me as I define it.

    They chanted at the other team to show they liked their own team better. They determined their worth, not based on who won or lost, but on a different set of preconceptions. Therefore, they were prejudicial in some way. Was the value determined because of the school they attended? Of the culture they embraced? Of preconceptions regarding heritage? You'd have to ask them. All I'm saying is that it would be nearly impossible to say it wasn't prejudicial and totally impossible to say it was racist.
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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    Re: Racist? Texas high school apologizes for fans' 'USA!' chant after basketball game

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    Clearly, the teenagers were being prejudicial based on "you're not from here" or "you're different" or "your parents are illegal" or even "we don't like the Hispanic culture", but until Latino/Hispanic is determined to be a race instead of an ethnicity, it's not racism.
    You're getting caught up in the term. Racism, although is used to describe bigotry against race primarily, can also be used to describe bigotry, discrimination, and prejudiced used towards any group. There are numerous terms that have the exact same definition as Racism, but is used for specific groups; Homophobia, Xenophobia, Anti-Semetic, etc.

    Racism is the blanket term for all of those variations. So when it is said that the chanting of USA at that school was racist, although it wasn't specifically about race, it was about bigotry and prejudice. That is why the blanket term, racism, is appropriate and accurate.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Racist? Texas high school apologizes for fans' 'USA!' chant after basketball game

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    I'm prejudice against anyone who isn't me. After all, I choose to treat everyone either better or worse than myself based on their value compared to me as I define it.

    They chanted at the other team to show they liked their own team better. They determined their worth, not based on who won or lost, but on a different set of preconceptions. Therefore, they were prejudicial in some way. Was the value determined because of the school they attended? Of the culture they embraced? Of preconceptions regarding heritage? You'd have to ask them. All I'm saying is that it would be nearly impossible to say it wasn't prejudicial and totally impossible to say it was racist.
    But they weren't chanting the name of their team, or the name of their school. They were chanting USA, which if we follow your line of reasoning, was to show that their own country was better. Which again, leads to the insinuation that the hispanic team were not Americans, despite being from an American high school. The prejudice lies squarely on the ethnic group of the hispanic school/team.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Racist? Texas high school apologizes for fans' 'USA!' chant after basketball game

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Oh, I'm sure the kids wore them on that day on purpose. Iirc, a couple had bandanas too. My question is far more fundamental. Why should the American flag be considered disrespectful to Mexico? Why would that be any kind of instigation, especially in the US?

    IMO you already answered your question, it doesn't have to be the american flag it could be anything that is worn on purpose to instigate and to insinuate they aren't real americans or anything else dumb kids do.

    I don't understand how it gets anymore fundamental than common sense, the fundamentals is knowing WHY its worn.

    Also this is only applied in schools with kids in a school environment, in the real world to bad.

    On a public street you wearing an american flag means nothing towards mexico

    In a school setting fundamentals are about intent, some schools ban hats, logos, even colors all based on the students intent
    PURE STUPIDITY 1.) Glenn Beck doesnt lie. 2.) Obama is Jesus like 3.) Sara Palin is so smart & shes a great speaker. 4.) Obama does just about everything perfect. 5.) Fox doesn' t lean right 6.) Pro-Choice is no different than Pro-Slavery 7.) MSNBC doesn't lean left. 8.) What TSA does is no different than sexual assault & child porn.

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    Re: Racist? Texas high school apologizes for fans' 'USA!' chant after basketball game

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Or digging for racism where there is none. there is plenty of racism out there. I dont see why people feel the need to assume every display of white or american pride is racist.
    Do you read your own posts?

    It is definitely the case that every display of "white" pride is racist, because "white" is an explicitly racist identity.

    Many (not all) displays of "american pride" (usually implied to mean U.S. American) are partially rooted in racism, because (as is clearly the case here with the USA chant) there is an obvious implication that one (predominantly white) team is representative of the U.S.A., while the other (however defined as "other") is not (or at the very least, than one of them is MORE representative of it...in either case the racist premise is obvious).

    If apologists for racism in this country spent maybe half the time and effort acknowledging and considering possible solutions to racism as they currently spend denying the very existence and operation of racism, we might actually be able to have practical, productive, collaborative discussions which actually achieve something.

    In the meantime, however, it's back to the usual MO: a combination of mass denial and pretense coupled with attempts (both implicit and explicit) to keep "white" folks comfortable and at the center of the discussion.

    The problem is not oversensitive people of color who Just Need To Get Over It. The problem is ongoing acceptance (and trivialization) of real racist oppression. Will the losing basketball team die from enduring racism? Of course not. But the aggregate toll of putting up with BS like this over the course of a lifetime ultimately adds up to higher stress, fewer and lesser opportunities, and a host of artificial obstacles to success put in place and left in place by racism and -- especially -- the collective societal failure of a complacent and comfortable "white" population to examine and overturn their own unearned and unsolicited privilege.

    The average participant in racist oppression in this country is a well-intentioned and reasonably intelligent person who doesn't appreciate the full implications of their participation in racism. Thus the appropriate identification of solutions will not be found by looking mostly for overt and intentional acts of racism, but negligent and entitled ones. In other words, instead of a battle of presumed accusations of racist super villainy (i.e. accusations of racism as identity of persons), we need to look at racist premises and the actions which follow from them. In other words, it is about racist thought and action, not about racist PEOPLE per se.

    Maybe then the reflexive habit of defensiveness can be dropped and some sanity can be safely injected, because as long as most of the would-be discussion ends up being about "white" people defending themselves against real or imagined charges of BEING racists, there will remain little opportunity to address the real issue of "white" people -- or anyone else for that matter -- engaging in racist ACTION.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

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    Re: Racist? Texas high school apologizes for fans' 'USA!' chant after basketball game

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    I didn't mean to sound as if I was arguing with you. I was attempting to continue your thought. Sorry.






    Respectfully, you might want to spend some time looking into the definitions of "race" versus "ethnicity" or "nationality" or "heritage", etc. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I'm pretty sure that while you fairly well demonstrated an example of someone being racist (cheering for a team of whites over blacks because of race), you also seem to be off a beat when you try to equate South America with being or not being Caucasian. Did you know that there are Caucasians in Africa, too?

    Clearly, the teenagers were being prejudicial based on "you're not from here" or "you're different" or "your parents are illegal" or even "we don't like the Hispanic culture", but until Latino/Hispanic is determined to be a race instead of an ethnicity, it's not racism.
    You do realize your post is meaningless to the story right? there are blacks in Germany too your point?
    I never specified what race and ethnicity is did I?
    Did you see the words "isnt exactly" in my post? So there was nothing off beat LOL. Common sense will tell you people who scream white power would never be proud over Kenya winning something because theres SOME whites in kenya.

    Also just to further educated you, since as you claimed you are clearly NOT an expert, a race of people BY DEFINITION can also be any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc OR ethnic stock. Race is not ALWAYS the anthropology version of only 3 or 4.

    Respectfully you might want to read what is actually posted and instead of assuming off a baseless guess you might want to ask next time and it in fact could be deemed racist and "probably" was by some. Too funny.
    PURE STUPIDITY 1.) Glenn Beck doesnt lie. 2.) Obama is Jesus like 3.) Sara Palin is so smart & shes a great speaker. 4.) Obama does just about everything perfect. 5.) Fox doesn' t lean right 6.) Pro-Choice is no different than Pro-Slavery 7.) MSNBC doesn't lean left. 8.) What TSA does is no different than sexual assault & child porn.

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