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Thread: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    As of January 2012, Iran exports 22% of its oil to China, 14% to Japan, 13% to India, 10% to South Korea, 7% to Italy, 7% to Turkey, 6% to Spain and the remainder to France, Greece (& other European countries), Taiwan, Sri Lanka, South Africa.



    God this is just a terrible post. Saddam did "submit meekly" to IAEA inspectors (and sanctions and giving up national economic sovereignty, etc.) for a very long time and stopped when the searches became intrusive to matters of national security and it was found that some inspectors were spying on sensitive Iraqi sites. It was blatantly obvious that Iraq had absolutely zero weapons of mass destruction for quite some time prior to the invasion. It had absolutely nothing to do with Iran.



    No. He didn't. He wanted everyone to know that he didn't. The Ba'ath administration pretty much gave free reign to weapons inspectors for years.

    This entire thread is just pitiful.
    I think you've overstated the case a little ... but just a little. The Iraqis biggest problem was that they destroyed a lot of their WMD on their own following the first Gulf War, but they didn't document it. So you had this ridiculous situation where the inspectors were saying, "show us this stuff -- we know you've got it." And the Iraqis would say, "we can't show it to you -- we destroyed it." And the inspectors would say, "prove it." And the Iraqis would say, "we can't ... we destroyed it." And round and round it went.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    As of January 2012, Iran exports 22% of its oil to China, 14% to Japan, 13% to India, 10% to South Korea, 7% to Italy, 7% to Turkey, 6% to Spain and the remainder to France, Greece (& other European countries), Taiwan, Sri Lanka, South Africa.



    God this is just a terrible post. Saddam did "submit meekly" to IAEA inspectors (and sanctions and giving up national economic sovereignty, etc.) for a very long time and stopped when the searches became intrusive to matters of national security and it was found that some inspectors were spying on sensitive Iraqi sites. It was blatantly obvious that Iraq had absolutely zero weapons of mass destruction for quite some time prior to the invasion. It had absolutely nothing to do with Iran.



    No. He didn't. He wanted everyone to know that he didn't. The Ba'ath administration pretty much gave free reign to weapons inspectors for years.

    This entire thread is just pitiful.
    No. your lack of knowledge about what was going on in Iraq is what's pitiful.

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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    I like how your post addresses absolutely nothing, typical Grant rant.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Actually, what you are saying is a problem. You suggest that we may not be able to trust our own intel, then say that this "compels us to be certain that Iran doesn't get a nuke." However, if we can't trust our own intel, then how would we be able to trust our own intel regarding Iran having a nuclear weapon. The fact of the matter is that a lot of former intelligence information is being ignored by the Obama administration in order to keep pushing for war against Iran. Such as the fact that National Intelligence Estimate released a report saying "that concluded that Iran had halted its work on nuclear weapons in 2003." (The Bush Administrationís operations in Iran : The New Yorker) In addition to this, Leon Panetta admitted that the US didn't think that Iran was making a nuclear weapon. In March of last year, intelligence officials stated that they "did not know if Iran eventually would decide to build nuclear weapons." (U.S. Updates Iran Assessment | Arms Control Association) And finally, it was reported that intelligence officials have said that "[Iran's] leaders have not decided about going ahead with an atomic weapon." (U.S. intelligence: Iran leaders reopened nuke debate | Reuters)

    However, the push to war is still going on and thus we must ask the question: If we don't think that Iran is trying to get a nuclear weapon, then why are we still threatening them?

    Yes, Giraldi is saying not to trust the intelligence services as the information they are giving out may very well be politically motivated. For example, during the lead-up to the Iraq war, everything one was saying that Iraq had WMDs when this turned out not to be true.
    The read I'm seeing from our intelligence services - and what I think you're seeing too - is that Iran does NOT currently have a nuclear weapon. That Iran is only considering their options. But now we have your source, Giraldi, telling us not to trust intelligence services. THAT is where the problem lay. His disbelief in intel from the CIA pushes us closer to an attack on Iran. For me, I think our intel has got it right and we should trust the CIA. They are saying Iran doesn't have a nuke and hasn't made a solid push to build one, but has also explored the possibility of assembling them and what it would take to do so. What the IAEA is getting and what the reports you are finding is consistent with this. The different views are not necessarily contradictory; they are two different assessments (from different agencies) looking at only specific parts of the same intel.

    If Iran does build a nuke and mounts it on a missile, they are unlikely to actually use that missile. That would be like signing their own death warrant. In this case, it would be a strictly defensive weapon. But while people like to claim that Iran is completely harmless because they haven't invaded anyone, I refuse to believe they are harmless. Iran doesn't attack anyone directly, they always get someone else (Hamas,Hezbollah) to do their dirty work. Iran does encourage conflict, they just don't do it themselves. This makes them far from harmless. So It's not the nuclear-tipped missiles that concern me, it's the thought of Iran handing a nuclear warhead to someone else and getting them to detonate it. And that is why we should be concerned about Iran weaponizing their nuclear program.

    And if anything, Obama is dialing back the "war drums," and pushing for more negotiations. We easily could have attacked by now, but Obama is saying no. Let's be clear on that.
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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    The read I'm seeing from our intelligence services - and what I think you're seeing too - is that Iran does NOT currently have a nuclear weapon. That Iran is only considering their options. But now we have your source, Giraldi, telling us not to trust intelligence services. THAT is where the problem lay. His disbelief in intel from the CIA pushes us closer to an attack on Iran. For me, I think our intel has got it right and we should trust the CIA. They are saying Iran doesn't have a nuke and hasn't made a solid push to build one, but has also explored the possibility of assembling them and what it would take to do so. What the IAEA is getting and what the reports you are finding is consistent with this. The different views are not necessarily contradictory; they are two different assessments (from different agencies) looking at only specific parts of the same intel.

    If Iran does build a nuke and mounts it on a missile, they are unlikely to actually use that missile. That would be like signing their own death warrant. In this case, it would be a strictly defensive weapon. But while people like to claim that Iran is completely harmless because they haven't invaded anyone, I refuse to believe they are harmless. Iran doesn't attack anyone directly, they always get someone else (Hamas,Hezbollah) to do their dirty work. Iran does encourage conflict, they just don't do it themselves. This makes them far from harmless. So It's not the nuclear-tipped missiles that concern me, it's the thought of Iran handing a nuclear warhead to someone else and getting them to detonate it. And that is why we should be concerned about Iran weaponizing their nuclear program.

    And if anything, Obama is dialing back the "war drums," and pushing for more negotiations. We easily could have attacked by now, but Obama is saying no. Let's be clear on that.
    If, e.g. Hezbollah, set off a nuke, don't you think we'd be smart enough to know where it came from? And don't you think the Iranians are smart enough to know we'd know?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    If, e.g. Hezbollah, set off a nuke, don't you think we'd be smart enough to know where it came from? And don't you think the Iranians are smart enough to know we'd know?
    Even on this site, we have many people who think Iran is utterly harmless, and therefor blameless. They claim that Iran has done nothing wrong to anyone. When others offer that Iran has supplied arms to Hamas and Hezbollah, supplied fighters and IEDs into Iraq, supplied weapons to the Taliban, and supplied tanks and arms for the civilian massacre in Syria, these smart enough to know facts are tossed aside as preposterous. The counter is it's only the US doing bad things in the world so we should stop falsely accusing Iran.

    And who would it be that tells us Iran passed a nuke to Hezbollah? The CIA. Well nobody wants to believe anything the CIA says. I always hear, "oh yeah and they CIA got it right about WMDs in Iraq, right?" So our primary source of information wouldn't be accepted anyway.

    This would show that we are NOT smart enough to know where Hezbollah would get a hypothetical nuke. It tells Iran that a good chunk of American society is fooled into believing Iran would never do a bad thing or even a dumb thing. So this tells Iran they could quite likely get away with claiming innocence of delivering a nuke to Hezbollah.
    Last edited by EagleAye; 03-07-12 at 11:35 AM.
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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Even on this site, we have many people who think Iran is utterly harmless, and therefor blameless. They claim that Iran has done nothing wrong to anyone.
    That's because this site has so many kids stuck in that "acting out" phase of their lives.
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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    The read I'm seeing from our intelligence services - and what I think you're seeing too - is that Iran does NOT currently have a nuclear weapon. That Iran is only considering their options. But now we have your source, Giraldi, telling us not to trust intelligence services. THAT is where the problem lay. His disbelief in intel from the CIA pushes us closer to an attack on Iran. For me, I think our intel has got it right and we should trust the CIA. They are saying Iran doesn't have a nuke and hasn't made a solid push to build one, but has also explored the possibility of assembling them and what it would take to do so. What the IAEA is getting and what the reports you are finding is consistent with this. The different views are not necessarily contradictory; they are two different assessments (from different agencies) looking at only specific parts of the same intel.
    This I entirely agree on. According to current intel, Iran is currently not attempting to build a nuclear weapon.

    If Iran does build a nuke and mounts it on a missile, they are unlikely to actually use that missile. That would be like signing their own death warrant. In this case, it would be a strictly defensive weapon. But while people like to claim that Iran is completely harmless because they haven't invaded anyone, I refuse to believe they are harmless. Iran doesn't attack anyone directly, they always get someone else (Hamas,Hezbollah) to do their dirty work. Iran does encourage conflict, they just don't do it themselves. This makes them far from harmless. So It's not the nuclear-tipped missiles that concern me, it's the thought of Iran handing a nuclear warhead to someone else and getting them to detonate it. And that is why we should be concerned about Iran weaponizing their nuclear program.
    I would not say that Iran is "harmless," but I think that they are not the threat that the media and so many pundits are trying to make them out to be. While they may be able to launch some rockets and do a lot of saber-rattling, they are not, in any way, an existential threat to either the United States or Israel.

    I don't think that Iran would be so stupid as to hand off a nuke to Hezbollah or Hamas because it is already common knowledge that Iran funds both organizations and that if either group were to get a nuke, we'd already have a good idea of who gave it to them using the process of elimination.

    And if anything, Obama is dialing back the "war drums," and pushing for more negotiations. We easily could have attacked by now, but Obama is saying no. Let's be clear on that.
    Actually, I'd have to disagree as in his recent speech to AIPAC, Obama stated

    I have said that when it comes to preventing Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon, I will take no options off the table, and I mean what I say. That includes all elements of American power: a political effort aimed at isolating Iran, a diplomatic effort to sustain our coalition and ensure that the Iranian program is monitored, an economic effort that imposes crippling sanctions and, yes, a military effort to be prepared for any contingency.

    Iranís leaders should understand that I do not have a policy of containment; I have a policy to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. And as I have made clear time and again during the course of my presidency, I will not hesitate to use force when it is necessary to defend the United States and its interests.
    (Transcript of Obama?s AIPAC speech - POLITICO.com)

    In addition to this, Obama stated in a recent interview with The Atlantic that "both Iran and Israel should take seriously the possibility of American action against Iran's nuclear facilities" and "that Tehran's nuclear program would represent a 'profound' national-security threat to the United States even if Israel were not a target of Iran's violent rhetoric, and he dismissed the argument that the United States could successfully contain a nuclear Iran." (Obama to Iran and Israel: 'As President of the United States, I Don't Bluff' - Jeffrey Goldberg - International - The Atlantic)


    So not only do you have Obama saying that we'll still use military force, but in addition to this, that he has completely and totally given up on even attempting to contain Iran of they do get a nuclear weapon. I don't know about you, but that is pretty pro-war rhetoric.
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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Even if Iran does build nukes, why would we think that they'd use them on us? What possible benefit is there in fighting the United States and almost certainly being destroyed? No, the real targets of Iranian nukes would be their neighbors. Probably their Sunni neighbors first, even before Israel. Even Israel is probably protected under our shadow. Countries like Bangladesh, Jordan, Egypt, or Pakistan are the ones who really need to worry about Iranian nukes, not us.
    Are you out of your mind?

    Israel, first of all, does not need to be protected by America. Israel is more than capable of protecting itself from damn near anyone, including the United States.

    Second of all, if you think that Iran will drop nuclear weapons on its neighbors, the people Iran hopes to ally with against the oppressive and greedy Western World, you should go read up on your international relations. Iranian nukes could cause MASSIVE losses in any Western target and could effectively crush American resolve to fight back. Remember the Cold War? If Iran dropped a nuke, do you honestly believe any country in the world is going to risk nuclear armageddon to respond? Remember 9/11? A nuclear warhead on New York City will make the Twin Towers look like a pebble being thrown at us.

    Open your eyes to the threat, or I promise you, you'll die with your eyes closed.

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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post

    I would not say that Iran is "harmless," but I think that they are not the threat that the media and so many pundits are trying to make them out to be. While they may be able to launch some rockets and do a lot of saber-rattling, they are not, in any way, an existential threat to either the United States or Israel.

    I don't think that Iran would be so stupid as to hand off a nuke to Hezbollah or Hamas because it is already common knowledge that Iran funds both organizations and that if either group were to get a nuke, we'd already have a good idea of who gave it to them using the process of elimination.
    Iran's main desire for Nukes is most likely to be the threat to everyone they desire to be. The power of having nukes is nearly as impressive as the ball size required to actually use them. And even if they did launch Rocket Mounted nukes, measures are in place to (hopefully) help protect America against such an attack.

    But, that being said, make no mistake - Israel will not allow Iran to develop a true nuclear weapon that could be used against them and to think they will is utter folly. May I remind you of the Munich terrorists that the Israelis illegally hunted down and assassinated? Israel has the determination to do what is necessary to protect its national security. A plane has to fly into our buildings before we'll step up and fight back.

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