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Thread: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery
    I didn't deny your former statement, I just find it to be a laughable reason for "going to war" considering the fact that the United States has supported and continues to support terrorist groups. US government officials have even openly stated their support for terrorist groups in Iran in the recent past months. Your latter statement first off is false as there is no evidence of an Iranian nuclear weapons program as well as hypocritical considering the fact that American allies such as Israel, India and Pakistan have proliferated without much whining from American government officials.

    But you already knew all this when you wrote your post.
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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post

    In any case, there is no good military solution here. We could bomb the crap out of them and it wouldn't set their program back for very long. We could launch an Iraq-style invasion but that would actually be much more difficult than Iraq was, and more costly, and we can ill afford it. On top of the direct cost, which would be immense, it would likely plunge the world economy into a massive recession, if not a depression.

    I am not disagreeing with you in that.

    What I am saying is that I am very pessimist about these "new" round of talks because almost certainly Iran will use them to gain further time to obtain full military nuclear capability.

    A war would be a disaster for the whole world but regrettably sometimes wars are forced upon us whether we like it or not.

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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    What on Earth makes you say this?
    The vast majority of acts of terrorism conducted by extremist Muslims are carried out against other Muslims. All of the wars (except the ones started by us) that Middle Eastern nations have fought in since WW2 have been against each other. And often, violence in the Middle East, such as the actions of Saddam that caused the Gulf War, were Sunni vs. Shiite. They're FAR more interested in fighting each other than attacking us. Iran wants us alive, prosperous, and buying their oil.
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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I didn't deny your former statement, I just find it to be a laughable reason for "going to war" considering the fact that the United States has supported and continues to support terrorist groups. US government officials have even openly stated their support for terrorist groups in Iran in the recent past months. Your latter statement first off is false as there is no evidence of an Iranian nuclear weapons program as well as hypocritical considering the fact that American allies such as Israel, India and Pakistan have proliferated without much whining from American government officials.

    But you already knew all this when you wrote your post.
    The term used is "weapons of mass destruction" which means:

    18 USC § 2332a -... weapons of mass destruction
    (c) Definitions.— For purposes of this section—

    (2) the term “weapon of mass destruction” means—
    (A) any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this title;
    (B) any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors;
    (C) any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector (as those terms are defined in section 178 of this title); or
    (D) any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life;

    18 USC § 2332a - weapons of mass destruction | LII / Legal Information Institute

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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    I am not disagreeing with you in that.

    What I am saying is that I am very pessimist about these "new" round of talks because almost certainly Iran will use them to gain further time to obtain full military nuclear capability.

    A war would be a disaster for the whole world but regrettably sometimes wars are forced upon us whether we like it or not.
    I have two things to say on the bolded part:

    1. This was is not being "forced upon us." We are forcing war upon Iran. Who is talking about bombing and invading countries? Whose been supporting terrorist groups inside other countries?

    And before you bring up the BS Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map quote- it's already been debunked:

    (Lost in translation | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk) (Just How Far Did They Go, Those Words Against Israel? - NYTimes.com) (Sam Sedaei: The Biggest Lie Told To The American People: Ahmadinejad's Alleged Remarks On Israel)

    2. Since you think that this war is being "forced upon us" would you be willing to join up and fight in it?
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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I didn't deny your former statement, I just find it to be a laughable reason for "going to war" considering the fact that the United States has supported and continues to support terrorist groups. US government officials have even openly stated their support for terrorist groups in Iran in the recent past months. Your latter statement first off is false as there is no evidence of an Iranian nuclear weapons program as well as hypocritical considering the fact that American allies such as Israel, India and Pakistan have proliferated without much whining from American government officials.

    But you already knew all this when you wrote your post.
    Regarding the bolded part above, not everyone (including the IAEA) agree with this

    An International Atomic Energy Agency report last year said that Iran had built a large containment chamber at Parchin, southeast of Tehran, to conduct explosives tests that are "strong indicators" of efforts to develop an atom bomb.
    [...]
    Agency chief Yukiya Amano said on Monday Iran has tripled its monthly production of higher-grade enriched uranium and the U.N. nuclear watchdog had "serious concerns" about possible military dimensions to Tehran's atomic activities.
    Iran to allow IAEA visit Parchin military site: ISNA - Yahoo! News

    A report by a UN watchdog into Iran’s nuclear ambitions ‘completely discredits’ the Islamic nation’s protestations of innocence, according to Foreign Secretary William Hague.

    The International Atomic Energy Agency found that Iran is developing a nuclear test facility, nuclear detonators and computer modelling for a nuclear warhead that would fit on an existing missile.
    [...]
    KEY FINDINGS IN UN REPORT ON IRANIAN NUCLEAR PROGRAMME

    In its latest report on Iran, the UN International Atomic Energy Agency outlines the sum of its knowledge on the Islamic Republic's alleged secret nuclear weapons work, including:

    - Clandestine procurement of equipment and design information needed to make such arms;
    - High explosives testing and detonator development to set off a nuclear charge;
    - Computer modelling of a core of a nuclear warhead;
    - Preparatory work for a nuclear weapons test, and
    - Developing and mounting a nuclear payload onto its Shahab 3 intermediate range missile - a weapon that can reach Israel, Iran's arch foe.
    [...]
    Ahmadinejad's regime is already thought to have built a top-secret explosives test facility at a site in Parchin, just outside Tehran, where it is conducting experiments to develop a weapon.

    Scientists are building hi-tech precision detonators which would be essential for a nuclear device, and developing a uranium core for a nuclear warhead, the UN said.
    UN report: Iran IS trying to build nuclear bomb warns William Hague | Mail Online
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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Regarding the bolded part above, not everyone (including the IAEA) agree with this
    Unfortunately we already went over these sources that you have repeated here.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Unfortunately we already went over these sources that you have repeated here.
    So then you would agree there is evidence? I acknowledge the US intelligence thinks no nukes are under development, but Britain, Israel, and the IAEA thinks there IS evidence of a weapons program. Certainly there is enough to justify pressuring Iran to show the evidence is wrong, yes?
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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    So then you would agree there is evidence? I acknowledge the US intelligence thinks no nukes are under development, but Britain, Israel, and the IAEA thinks there IS evidence of a weapons program. Certainly there is enough to justify pressuring Iran to show the evidence is wrong, yes?
    Here's the thing though. Who are we to tell them they can't have the friggin thing? If Iran wants a nuke, let em have it. As soon as we get intel that they are planning to strike us or an ally, we destroy the nuke. Simple as that. This isn't the Cold War where two super powers have massive amounts of nukes aimed at each other. Its a garbage little Persian country that will have one or two ICBM's that we can shoot down with a quickness. In addition, if Iran launches, its not like its going to start a chain reaction of other countries shooting theirs. The only country that could possibly shoot back is the one they launch on. The rest of the nuclear countries around the world will sit back and watch.
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    Re: World Powers Agree to Resume Nuclear Talks With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    So then you would agree there is evidence? I acknowledge the US intelligence thinks no nukes are under development, but Britain, Israel, and the IAEA thinks there IS evidence of a weapons program. Certainly there is enough to justify pressuring Iran to show the evidence is wrong, yes?

    Actually, the IAEA is potentially biased as

    On March 5, 2012, the IAEA chief, Yukiya Amano, said he had “serious concerns” over Iran’s nuclear program and its ambitions.[14] It’s interesting to note, however, that in a ‘Confidential’ diplomatic cable from the U.S. State Department in 2009, American diplomats discussed Amano’s appointment to head the IAEA, and stated that he “displayed remarkable congruence of views with us on conducting the Agency’s missions,” and speaking to an American Ambassador, Amano “thanked the U.S. for having supported his candidacy and took pains to emphasize his support for U.S. strategic objectives for the Agency.” Though, Amano informed the Ambassador, “that he would need to make concessions to the G-77, which correctly required him to be fair-minded and independent, but that he was solidly in the U.S. court on every key strategic decision, from high-level personnel appointments to the handling of Iran’s alleged nuclear weapons program.”[15]


    Sources are this (Iran: watchdog says suspicious activities continue at blocked sites - Telegraph) and this (US embassy cables: New UN chief is 'director general of all states, but in agreement with us' | World news | guardian.co.uk).

    This as well is relevant

    In 2010, the Pentagon’s report to Congress stressed that Iran’s strategy in the region was not one of aggression, as our media and politicians would have us believe, but in fact, was a “deterrent strategy.” The report stated, “Iran’s nuclear program and its willingness to keep open the possibility of developing nuclear weapons is a central part of its deterrent strategy.” The U.S. approach to Iran, then, “remains centered on preventing it from obtaining nuclear weapons and on countering Iran’s influence in the Middle East.”[24] Iran itself has claimed that it “pursues a defensive and deterrent strategy.”[25]


    The sources are this (Defense.gov News Article: Report to Congress Outlines Iranian Threats) and this (PressTV - 'Iran pursues deterrent defense strategy')

    The above excerpts were from this article.

    In addition to that, it has been stated that some people are quite skeptical of the IAEA's report as

    some, like former CIA officer Philip Giraldi, have grave doubts about the value of the IAEA report.

    I would be very skeptical about this report that is coming out from the International Atomic Energy Agency, because the IAEA doesn’t really have any intelligence capabilities of its own. It is relying on reports that are coming from other people. I would rather suspect these reports are coming from the US and Israel,” says Giraldi.


    The source is this (IAEA study as pretext for war on Iran — RT).

    Thus, the objectivity of the IAEA is in question due to the current director's potential bias.
    Last edited by Mr. Invisible; 03-06-12 at 11:20 PM. Reason: Spacing and Bolding
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