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Thread: McCain calls for US-led airstrikes on Assad forces

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    Re: McCain calls for US-led airstrikes on Assad forces

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    You're right.

    Which is why it would be nice if Europe showed some balls and moral courage every once in a while on the world stage.
    Libya ringing any bells?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: McCain calls for US-led airstrikes on Assad forces

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Libya ringing any bells?
    Well, they did let us Lead the Way for them.....First!

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    Re: McCain calls for US-led airstrikes on Assad forces

    Honestly...I don't know how anybody could support the Libyan people and not the Syrian people. They are performing executions and conducting artillary strikes on civilians.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: McCain calls for US-led airstrikes on Assad forces

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Syria is a major strategic piece in the region. toppling that regime would severely curtail Iranian operations.
    I don't think that is clear for a number of reasons:

    1) Who would take over a post-Assad Syria? No specific names are known.
    2) Is the leader-in-waiting legitimate and could he/she exert sufficient control to maintain stability? No specific leader is known, so that question is unresolved.
    3) What specific policies toward the U.S., U.S. regional interests, and U.S. regional allies would be undertaken? No government-in-waiting exists, so that's not clear either.
    4) What institutional structure would assure that Syria would not disintegrate, leading to further regional destablization and developments that could lead to opportunities that could be exploited by Iran or Iran's non-state allies?

    The outcomes in Egypt and Libya did not lead to liberal democracy. To date, there's no concrete evidence that the materially enhanced U.S. interests. Indeed, the early developments in Egypt have raised concerns about the Egypt-Israel peace agreement that is of major importance to U.S. regional interests. Fortunately, Egypt's military has applied the brakes to the kind of rapid transformation that could have taken Egypt down a path that would be even worse for U.S. interests. In Libya, the post-Gadhafi government has done little to bolster U.S. interests and has continued to protect the Lockerbie bomber from extradition.

    IMO, the absence of clear answers to the above four questions and lack of compelling U.S. interests that would override that ambiguity suggest that the U.S. should not intervene militarily. The Assad regime's brutality is not sufficient to warrant a military response that would not lead to a marked enhancement of U.S. interests or those of its regional allies (moderate Arab states + Israel). In the end, I fully agree that Syria is a major strategic piece (relationships vis-a-vis Iran, non-state actors in the region, and Lebanon), but don't see U.S. military intervention dramatically changing Syria's strategic role in the region on account of a lack of identifiable and legitimate successor government-in-waiting. As a result, military intervention would amount to a roll of the dice, with only the hope that a successor government would be better for U.S. interests.

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    Re: McCain calls for US-led airstrikes on Assad forces

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well, they did let us Lead the Way for them.....First!
    Yep, they let us lead for a few days and then they took over the show.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: McCain calls for US-led airstrikes on Assad forces

    The outcomes in Egypt and Libya did not lead to liberal democracy. To date, there's no concrete evidence that the materially enhanced U.S. interests.
    It's been less than a year. True...we're not sure how exactly it will turn out but uncertainty isn't a reason (imo) to sit on the sidelines while dictators kill people. I mean...that is the whole basis behind why we are exceptional. We're supposedly a country that pushes Democracy and the right of individuals to freely choose their governments...we're supposed to be different from past empires that supported proxy dictators.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: McCain calls for US-led airstrikes on Assad forces

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    As we've seen in Egypt and Libya, deposing dictators does not guarantee a democracy. All it guarantees is a temporary void in leadership, when anarchy and chaos reign.
    Let me know when the new regimes end elections and start bombing civilians with the air force.

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    Re: McCain calls for US-led airstrikes on Assad forces

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Honestly...I don't know how anybody could support the Libyan people and not the Syrian people. They are performing executions and conducting artillary strikes on civilians.
    I don't think it's a question of not supporting the Syrian people. Rather, it seems to me, it's a question of how difficult the mission would be. In Libya the rebels made some legitimate military gains on their own, indicating that they could do the heavy lifting if they just had air support. In Syria ... not so much.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: McCain calls for US-led airstrikes on Assad forces

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Yep, they let us lead for a few days and then they took over the show.
    Yep, with us making sure they could never be targeted.....first. Again!

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    Re: McCain calls for US-led airstrikes on Assad forces

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I don't think it's a question of not supporting the Syrian people. Rather, it seems to me, it's a question of how difficult the mission would be. In Libya the rebels made some legitimate military gains on their own, indicating that they could do the heavy lifting if they just had air support. In Syria ... not so much.
    Sure...that's true, Syria is smaller more Urbanized, their population may not have as much access to weapons. At the same time, we remove any chance of retaliation against the Syraian regime and we're basically a toothless tiger telling Syria they really need to act like good guys.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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