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Thread: Volt production on hold for 5 weeks

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    Re: Volt production on hold for 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Then why exactly are we subsidizing 10k of the sticker? If thats the demographic they dont need the subsidy, they ought to be ready to pay a higher price for a ****in status symbol.
    I don't necessarily think that subsidizing the sticker price of the Volt is the best way to go about it. It's not so much that the target demographic itself needs the subsidy, it's more a matter of wanting to subsidize the development of electric cars (which I totally support). Since gas-guzzlers generate a lot of economic externalities that are not paid for by the consumer (e.g. pollution, unrest in the Middle East, oil-based economic swings, etc) it is definitely in the government's interest to encourage the transition to cleaner automobiles as soon as possible. Perhaps a better way to go about it would be for the government to just subsidize the R&D directly, instead of subsidizing the cars themselves.
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    Re: Volt production on hold for 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Electric cars aren't that more environmentally friendly anyway, since where does the electricity come from? Fossil fuels mostly, we need to find another energy source, not just rearrange how we power things.
    No, but a lot of electric plants supplement their power production by non-traditional means, and more will as time goes on. Power station - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Sure most of it comes from fossil fuel, but in a combustion engine, all of it comes from fossil fuel, and that can't change. With an electric motor, the plant can change it's fuel and it's irrelevant to the car. So if you get energy from a plant that only uses fossil fuel, then you have a fossil burning car, just like everyone else, but if they start getting a power draw from a nuclear plant, then you have a nuclear car. If they use a wind farm for supplement power production, then you have a wind car. To the car, the original fuel source is out of the equation.

    That's important now, and will become more important in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    If us tax payers were not subsidizing this so called car they would have sold about three.
    Tax breaks are used for a lot of things. Draw business to areas with weak economies, for example. No reason they shouldn't be used to spur investment into necessary new technology. It's the main reason we fund NASA, after all.
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    Re: Volt production on hold for 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Electric cars aren't that more environmentally friendly anyway, since where does the electricity come from? Fossil fuels mostly, we need to find another energy source, not just rearrange how we power things.
    Yes, but it's a lot easier to make them greener once they're plugged into the grid. Then it's just a matter of how we generate electricity, rather than designing completely new engine technologies. I think that the transition from gas engines to electric power is a much bigger technological breakthrough than the transition from (for example) inefficient solar panels to slightly more efficient solar panels. You're right that electric cars probably aren't THAT much greener than regular cars right now, but they will be by the time they become mainstream. This is because the cost of solar energy is rapidly falling and will soon approach cost parity with fossil fuels, at least in the sunny parts of the country.
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    Re: Volt production on hold for 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yes, but it's a lot easier to make them greener once they're plugged into the grid. Then it's just a matter of how we generate electricity, rather than designing completely new engine technologies. I think that the transition from gas engines to electric power is a much bigger technological breakthrough than the transition from (for example) inefficient solar panels to slightly more efficient solar panels. You're right that electric cars probably aren't THAT much greener than regular cars right now, but they will be by the time they become mainstream. This is because the cost of solar energy is rapidly falling and will soon approach cost parity with fossil fuels, at least in the sunny parts of the country.
    What about highley toxic lithium batteries? The process of manufacture of millions of cells in itself creates a problem for the enviorment not to mention the disposal issue of said cells. I also have a problem with wind turbines they are killing thousands of birds of prey. Most every type of alternative enegy has a down side. My crazy sister says the only hope for earth is the extinction of the human race.
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    Re: Volt production on hold for 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hikertrash View Post
    According to reviews, it's the best in upscale midsize cars.

    2012 Chevrolet Volt Reviews, Pictures and Prices | U.S. News Best Cars
    Who gives a **** what U.S.News car "experts" think. When you read real reviews it doesn't even place, sell the snake oil somewhere else.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Volt production on hold for 5 weeks

    The Volt, and just about all other hybrid and electric cars, cost a LOT to own. Sure, they get good gas economy. But how long do the batteries last, before they gotta be replaced? And how hard are those batteries to replace? And how much do they cost? Tally that in with the sale price, which is quite high for these things, and then toss in the fact that you can't really do any of your own maintenance on these types of cars, and what do you get? You get a car that costs as much as a Ferrarri to own. Not to BUY, but to OWN. Cheaper to just buy a BMW diesel...or a Jag, or VW, or Mercedes...all diesels, all with GREAT fuel economy, all with incredibly long service life, and all decent sized, luxury cars. Cept some of the VWs...but hey, I'd take a golf TDI over a Nissan Leaf, or hybrid anything, any day, save a TON of cash on both gas and upkeep, and on sticker price...AND it's faster, more reliable, more fun to drive, better range, and better looking.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Volt production on hold for 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    What about highley toxic lithium batteries? The process of manufacture of millions of cells in itself creates a problem for the enviorment not to mention the disposal issue of said cells.
    This is true. However, that's a relatively minor problem compared to the pollution of gasoline. Once we get to the point where we can affordably plug our cars in to an electric grid that mostly relies on renewable energy, the net impact on our environment will be overwhelmingly positive.

    I also have a problem with wind turbines they are killing thousands of birds of prey. Most every type of alternative enegy has a down side. My crazy sister says the only hope for earth is the extinction of the human race.
    Solar energy has no serious environmental drawbacks as far as I know. None that are significant relative to other types of energy anyway. I think that solar is going to be the main energy source soon; wind power will never be more than a fraction of our energy supply since it takes up so much space to generate a comparatively small amount of energy.
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    Re: Volt production on hold for 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    The Volt, and just about all other hybrid and electric cars, cost a LOT to own. Sure, they get good gas economy. But how long do the batteries last, before they gotta be replaced? And how hard are those batteries to replace? And how much do they cost? Tally that in with the sale price, which is quite high for these things, and then toss in the fact that you can't really do any of your own maintenance on these types of cars, and what do you get? You get a car that costs as much as a Ferrarri to own. Not to BUY, but to OWN. Cheaper to just buy a BMW diesel...or a Jag, or VW, or Mercedes...all diesels, all with GREAT fuel economy, all with incredibly long service life, and all decent sized, luxury cars. Cept some of the VWs...but hey, I'd take a golf TDI over a Nissan Leaf, or hybrid anything, any day, save a TON of cash on both gas and upkeep, and on sticker price...AND it's faster, more reliable, more fun to drive, better range, and better looking.
    I don't know about the Volt but the Prius warranties the battery for 100,000 miles.

    Maintenance costs on diesels are pretty high. On the new VW's you have to use the specified synthetic oil to maintain your warranty. Indeed, I would not want to replace a Hybrid battery but the Prius is a good affordable car.

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    Re: Volt production on hold for 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I don't know about the Volt but the Prius warranties the battery for 100,000 miles.

    Maintenance costs on diesels are pretty high. On the new VW's you have to use the specified synthetic oil to maintain your warranty. Indeed, I would not want to replace a Hybrid battery but the Prius is a good affordable car.
    They warranty that battery pack for 100K miles, OR 8 years. Same as the drive train on most cars sold in the US, more or less. Difference being, a rechargeable battery slowly loses it's ability to hold a charge over time. Meaning, while not so important in a hybrid...in an all electric car, you're range gets lower for every year you own it, until you replace it.

    Diesels are only expensive to maintain if you have to pay someone else to work on it...not a lot of diesel shops around. But it's not much different from a gas motor, and again, they run forever. It's no big thing to have a diesel with will over 350K miles on it...do that in a gas motor, and it's like Jesus Christ came back.

    The reason why you have to use specific oil to retain the warranty on diesels, be it a BMW, VW, OR merc, is because....people are stupid. You take that car to the typical Jiffy Lube, they are gonna put in standard oil, the same they put in all other cars...never even noticing it's a diesel. And some shade tree mechanics who own them will do the same. Which will VERY QUICKLY result in huge build ups in the ports and valves...

    The Prius is only a good affordable car if you don't mind paying mid size sedan prices for an economy class car. It's fuel economy, upkeep, and everything else pales to many of the diesels currently running around in Europe.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  10. #50
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    Re: Volt production on hold for 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I don't think the idea itself is a bad one... the subsidizing, excessive cost and inability to produce such a vehicle at say $23,000 to $28,000 (28K being fully loaded) is the problem. If that were the cost, the car would sell like hotcakes assuming no major or catastrophic design or mechanical faults existed.
    Just like anything else that is new off the production line. Take a look at computers, how much did they cost 20 years ago compared to now and look how much better they are. I think that you want to beat up something that is way to new to beat up on. If Chevrolet was making electric production cars 10 + years and you were pointing out this I could see this.

    I can see the point your trying to make but its just to early to hang it out to dry. You will need to see where it is in a decade or to of having production cars of this sort to actually have a case.
    Last edited by barbarian_style; 03-03-12 at 08:27 PM.

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