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Maine Sen. Olympia Snowe to Retire

j-mac said:
I love how the liberals are all defending Snowe....I guess that tells anyone that didn't already know where she stood.

j-mac
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Among the republicans I have defended on this board the list includes Bush(both father and son), Cheney, Santorum, Romney, Cain, Steele and many others. What does that tell you about them?
 
j-mac said:
I love how the liberals are all defending Snowe....I guess that tells anyone that didn't already know where she stood.

j-mac
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Yes. Because you apparently subscribe to the theory that if I like it, you must hate it... and we slowly watch our political system fail to such broken theories.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Nor is that a true identity. Nixon would be opposing the EPA of today if he were in office. EPA today over reaches and enacts regulations without legislation. What it routinely does as a matter of practice to property owners should not be legal.

Pollution was beginning to get really bad in the early 70s. Environmental concerns were beginning to take shape, now, environmental concerns are trumping everything else.

The paradigm about spending has changed as well. GOP spends money, Dems REALLY spend money, conservatives would like it to stop if they are fiscal cons, as most of the Tea Party wave from 2010 was and is. Old party establishment GOPers like Murkowksy, Snowe, Collins, McCain and then you have Specter, Bennet, Martinez...oh wait we primaried their asses for the exact thought shift Im talking about.

We cannot spend money the way this country has become used to---because we do not have it and its irressponsible to expect the next generation to pay for it.
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Nixon caved to the left to create EPA and other such stuff because the nation was far more to the left then than now. Now you can't even say anything about environmental concerns without the right flipping the hell out and citing Exxon sponsored scientists' blogs. The EPA was actually formulated by Nader. And Nixon signed it because the left was strong enough to pressure him. We've been sliding to the right since the beginning of the Reagan administration. Hell even Clinton was saying right-wing lines like "The era of big government is over" and signing NAFTA and all sorts of right wing stuff. In the 60's and 70's the left owned the political dialogue. Ever since the right wing has defined the parameters of political dialogue.

There's a whole other dynamic in the equation which is corporatism that has infected our system that is the real culprit of the changes we've seen for some time but IMO... that is a right wing swing in which what was the left's representation in our government is now chasing historically what has been predominantly right-wing corporate money.

The Republican party has been getting pretty much most of what they want for a long time now. Now unions are almost non-existent by comparison to the past, taxes are incredibly low, social conservatives are pwning the dialogue and conversation so that we are refighting **** that was solved 40 years ago like birth control and abortion and the like.

Now, if you were to make a argument that you don't like the direction the country has taken, you can do so more honestly and accurately without trotting out "I don't like it therefore it is the left" cop out.
 
Redress said:
Among the republicans I have defended on this board the list includes Bush(both father and son), Cheney, Santorum, Romney, Cain, Steele and many others. What does that tell you about them?
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That they were big government progressives. Or, that it was possibly a back handed defense of some sort.

j-mac
 
poweRob said:
Yes. Because you apparently subscribe to the theory that if I like it, you must hate it... and we slowly watch our political system fail to such broken theories.
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It isn't that I hate it, I don't in fact hate much. Hate is an emotion that I don't think has much use in politics, or governing. Emotion is what liberals use as the lens to see their path forward which is a predominant reason it fails so often.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
I love how the liberals are all defending Snowe....I guess that tells anyone that didn't already know where she stood.

j-mac
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Look at it this way. She caucused with the Republicans, and would have supported their slate of leaders. Assuming she reflects the views of her constituents, there's a fair chance that they'll now elect a real liberal who will caucus with the Democrats.

Meaning that there's less chance of the Republican party winning control of the Senate, and little chance of a conservative agenda getting much traction there.

Be careful what you wish for is the moral of the story.
 
rocket88 said:
Look at it this way. She caucused with the Republicans, and would have supported their slate of leaders. Assuming she reflects the views of her constituents, there's a fair chance that they'll now elect a real liberal who will caucus with the Democrats.

Meaning that there's less chance of the Republican party winning control of the Senate, and little chance of a conservative agenda getting much traction there.

Be careful what you wish for is the moral of the story.
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Well, that is a possibility, or........They could elect a real conservative who actually fights for government to adhere to the constitution.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
It isn't that I hate it, I don't in fact hate much. Hate is an emotion that I don't think has much use in politics, or governing. Emotion is what liberals use as the lens to see their path forward which is a predominant reason it fails so often.

j-mac
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Actually this is incorrect. Liberal and Conservative political and moral reasoning can actually be mapped on five different axis, which are all partially based on emotion, partially on instinct, and partially on reasoning.

Here is more information on the subject.

Jonathan Haidt on the moral roots of liberals and conservatives | Video on TED.com
 
j-mac said:
Well, that is a possibility, or........They could elect a real conservative who actually fights for government to adhere to the constitution.


j-mac
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If by "adheres to the constitution" means a much more conservative candidate, then I would say it's unlikely. Especially since the Democrats have stronger candidates this year than the Republicans.
 
j-mac said:
That they were big government progressives. Or, that it was possibly a back handed defense of some sort.

j-mac
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Good lord you crack me up....
 
j-mac said:
Well, that is a possibility, or........They could elect a real conservative who actually fights for government to adhere to the constitution.


j-mac
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If you're right about Snowe, they kept electing her. What does that tell you?
 
megaprogman said:
Actually this is incorrect. Liberal and Conservative political and moral reasoning can actually be mapped on five different axis, which are all partially based on emotion, partially on instinct, and partially on reasoning.

Here is more information on the subject.

Jonathan Haidt on the moral roots of liberals and conservatives | Video on TED.com
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Hmmmm....interesting...

Haidt found that Americans who identified as liberals tend to value care and fairness considerably higher than loyalty, respect, and purity. Self-identified conservative Americans value all five values more equally
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j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Hmmmm....interesting...



j-mac
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Yes, I have read the research. However, what you are interpreting as a value statement or endorsement is not. Its just the result of research.

Some values, such as purity and tribalism are actually outdated and useless.
 
Re: Senator Olympia Snowe to retire

Anagram said:
I don't hope. I'm just being realistic.
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Well, the realistic analysis of Snowe's situation is that she is under fire from a TEA party challanger that she knows she can't beat...But good luck with that fantasy you have going on there, I really don't care. Any state that would keep a self described socialist in office term after term deserves what they get.

j-mac
 
Re: Senator Olympia Snowe to retire

j-mac said:
Well, the realistic analysis of Snowe's situation is that she is under fire from a TEA party challanger that she knows she can't beat...But good luck with that fantasy you have going on there, I really don't care. Any state that would keep a self described socialist in office term after term deserves what they get.

j-mac
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Well, we'll see. I've seen nothing to suggest Snowe would have lost to Scott D'amboise. I've also seen nothing to suggest D'amboise would win a statewide election against either of the popular Democratic representatives that are planning to run for her seat now that she's retiring. Maybe you're right, but I don't think it's likely.
 
Re: Senator Olympia Snowe to retire

Anagram said:
Well, we'll see. I've seen nothing to suggest Snowe would have lost to Scott D'amboise. I've also seen nothing to suggest D'amboise would win a statewide election against either of the popular Democratic representatives that are planning to run for her seat now that she's retiring. Maybe you're right, but I don't think it's likely.
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Well, if we lose Vermont, we'll just have to focus on the other some 23 plus Senate, and Congressional demo seats up for vote. One seat is not Armageddon.


j-mac
 
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