• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Wisconsin governor won't challenge recall signatures

buck said:
Yes, that was after the law had been passed but prior to being published. I already addressed that.

Trying to use union's agreement after the law was passed and they had no alternatives and claiming that it proves what they would have done before the law was passed and they still thought they would delay, beat or modify the law doesn't quite work.

Prior to the bill being passed 2 big union leaders verbally claimed they would make the concessions. Many of the actual union members and a couple of other big union leaders said they would not agree to any concessions.

Do you have any examples of unions acepting pension/health care contributions prior to the law being passed? If they were so kind and willing to help out, surely those exist.
Click to expand...

Did you read the article? The law had been passed, but it was not in effect due to a federal injunction. It was also being challenged in state court. The contracts demonstrate -- conclusively -- that the unions were willing to make concessions in order to retain their rights. We know that because they did in fact make concessions to retain their rights.

Otherwise, as stated several times, their offer to make concessions was conditioned on Walker giving up his effort to strip them of collective bargaining rights.
 
Last edited:
AdamT said:
Did you read the article? The law had been passed, but it was not in effect due to a federal injunction. It was also being challenged in state court.
Click to expand...

I certainly don't have the greatest memory for these things, but I don't recall the federal court system issuing an injunction. Sumi issued an order to prevent publishing of the law, but she was not a federal judge. I also checked your link that you asked if I read, and didn't see any mention of a federal injunction. Can't say it didn't happen, but I don't recall it.

The contracts demonstrate -- conclusively -- that the unions were willing to make concessions in order to retain their rights. We know that because they did in fact make concessions to retain their rights.
Click to expand...

The unions agreed to concessions only after it was a done deal. For the most part, prior to passage, unions refused, and many actively fought, the idea of concessions.

The union members were correct, the proposed agreement was just a public relations decision. If you disagree, please provide some proof that there was large agreement in the unions to accept concessions prior to passage of Act10. I've already provided proof that large groups of union workers and some big leaders were against concessions prior to passage.
 
Hopefully he will stay in office. We need more politicans that will stand up agianst the big unions.

Cpl USMC MILITARY POLICE K-9 Unit. VIA taptalk.
 
Last edited:
cpgrad08 said:
Hopefully he will stay in office. We need more politicans that will stand up agianst the big unions.

Cpl USMC MILITARY POLICE K-9 Unit. VIA taptalk.
Click to expand...

That's why he's an extremist. He got the concessions he needed, maybe he had to twist a few arms, but that wasn't good enough. He had to fulfill his right wing wet dream of breaking the union.
 
There union isnt broken. It still exist. As someone who works with civilian government employees. Public sector works should not have a union.

Cpl USMC MILITARY POLICE K-9 Unit. VIA taptalk.
 
buck said:
I certainly don't have the greatest memory for these things, but I don't recall the federal court system issuing an injunction. Sumi issued an order to prevent publishing of the law, but she was not a federal judge. I also checked your link that you asked if I read, and didn't see any mention of a federal injunction. Can't say it didn't happen, but I don't recall it.



The unions agreed to concessions only after it was a done deal. For the most part, prior to passage, unions refused, and many actively fought, the idea of concessions.

The union members were correct, the proposed agreement was just a public relations decision. If you disagree, please provide some proof that there was large agreement in the unions to accept concessions prior to passage of Act10. I've already provided proof that large groups of union workers and some big leaders were against concessions prior to passage.
Click to expand...

My bad, it was a state court judge who enjoined the law from being published. But that's beside the point. The law was not in effect when many of the state unions signed contracts binding them to the concessions that Walker was seeking. Therefore you obviously can't say that they had no other choice. The law wasn't in effect and there was a reasonable chance that it would be tossed out.
 
cpgrad08 said:
There union isnt broken. It still exist. As someone who works with civilian government employees. Public sector works should not have a union.
Click to expand...

How do you feel about being fed, clothed and paid by my taxes? :)
 
Doesn't bother me. Im military (which I get out in a few months) so Im not union. If someone wants to work for thr government let them. Im just saying they shouldn't be unionize. Unionize work sectors always cost more which in,this cast increases the burden on the taxpayer like ur self.

Cpl USMC MILITARY POLICE K-9 Unit. VIA taptalk..
 
AdamT said:
The law wasn't in effect and there was a reasonable chance that it would be tossed out.
Click to expand...

You have quite the definition of reasonable.
 
buck said:
Yes, that is certainly a pretty big benefit, and I alluded to it earlier. Job security is part of the compensation. Being able to retire with defined benefit pension and retiree health insurance in your 50s (rather then 60's in private sector) is also part of the compensation.
Click to expand...
Not all government pensions depend on continued support from the government. Our local pension is a managed investment of some type. The City and it's employees pay into it during employment (only) but the pension is it's own entity, it's not City owned or supported except for those contributions. If the contributions stopped tomorrow the retirees would never know it. The pension fund did very well in the 90's and last I checked was running a pretty good excess. So don't act like its some huge drain on the government, it's not. At least, not in all cases. IIRC, the county pensions around here work the same way - don't know about the State.
 
cpgrad08 said:
Doesn't bother me. Im military (which I get out in a few months) so Im not union. If someone wants to work for thr government let them. Im just saying they shouldn't be unionize. Unionize work sectors always cost more which in,this cast increases the burden on the taxpayer like ur self.
Click to expand...
That's not always true. Some businesses actually care about their employees and pay them a reasonable wage. They tend to have a longer view than the short-sighted idiots looking for a dime today instead of a dollar tomorrow.

UAW And Why Honda And Toyota Workers Are Not Interested - Automotive News

Worse, conditions are better in transplants in some areas. An example of a happy plant of workers is in the Toyota plant in Georgetown, Kentucky. The workers are now being paid more and getting better bonuses than UAW workers average at domestic plants.
Click to expand...
As for unionized government workers, we have bargaining units here but it's illegal for any government worker to strike. The unions are there mostly to work out the contracts and represent workers at grievances. Most government here prefer them because the union takes up a lot of the admin slack involved in government. Of course, we have a nasty history of government corruption here (even if it was more than 70 years ago) so we watch the government like a hawk. And, no, the union doesn't side with the lazy SOB who gets caught sleeping on the job. Everything is spelled out, just like the UCMJ, so there are no surprises on either side.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by cpgrad08
Doesn't bother me. Im military (which I get out in a few months) so Im not union. If someone wants to work for thr government let them. Im just saying they shouldn't be unionize. Unionize work sectors always cost more which in,this cast increases the burden on the taxpayer like ur self.
Click to expand...
That's not always true. Some businesses actually care about their employees and pay them a reasonable wage. They tend to have a longer view than the short-sighted idiots looking for a dime today instead of a dollar tomorrow.

UAW And Why Honda And Toyota Workers Are Not Interested - Automotive News

Worse, conditions are better in transplants in some areas. An example of a happy plant of workers is in the Toyota plant in Georgetown, Kentucky. The workers are now being paid more and getting better bonuses than UAW workers average at domestic plants.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Were not talking abouy a bussiness here were it was to make aprofit to live, but a government that can take more money from you to cover there wasteful spending.

Cpl USMC MILITARY POLICE K-9 Unit. VIA taptalk.
 
MoSurveyor said:
That's not always true. Some businesses actually care about their employees and pay them a reasonable wage. They tend to have a longer view than the short-sighted idiots looking for a dime today instead of a dollar tomorrow.

UAW And Why Honda And Toyota Workers Are Not Interested - Automotive News

As for unionized government workers, we have bargaining units here but it's illegal for any government worker to strike. The unions are there mostly to work out the contracts and represent workers at grievances. Most government here prefer them because the union takes up a lot of the admin slack involved in government. Of course, we have a nasty history of government corruption here (even if it was more than 70 years ago) so we watch the government like a hawk. And, no, the union doesn't side with the lazy SOB who gets caught sleeping on the job. Everything is spelled out, just like the UCMJ, so there are no surprises on either side.
Click to expand...

Could fooled me. Many lazy employees that keep there job cause of the union.
Civillians rules are nothing like the UCMJ.


Cpl USMC MILITARY POLICE K-9 Unit. VIA taptalk.
 
cpgrad08 said:
Were not talking abouy a bussiness here were it was to make aprofit to live, but a government that can take more money from you to cover there wasteful spending.
Click to expand...
Wasteful spending my butt. Around here if they're wasting money we scream - and they listen or they're out. It's too bad so many people feel like the have no power. What the hell, do you guys all put salt peter in your drinking water or something?
 
MoSurveyor said:
Wasteful spending my butt. Around here if they're wasting money we scream - and they listen or they're out. It's too bad so many people feel like the have no power. What the hell, do you guys all put salt peter in your drinking water or something?
Click to expand...

Never said the people didn't have any power.

Cpl USMC MILITARY POLICE K-9 Unit. VIA taptalk.
 
cpgrad08 said:
Could fooled me. Many lazy employees that keep there job cause of the union.
Civillians rules are nothing like the UCMJ.


Cpl USMC MILITARY POLICE K-9 Unit. VIA taptalk.
Click to expand...

That's true. Most civilians don't get pensions and lifetime medical care like folks who retire from the Marines.
 
AdamT said:
That's true. Most civilians don't get pensions and lifetime medical care like folks who retire from the Marines.
Click to expand...

Penisons dont exist anymore for us younger in the military. If I did 20 years I would get a 401k that I would have to pay into. still I have to pay into tricare to use it.

Cpl USMC MILITARY POLICE K-9 Unit. VIA taptalk.
 
AdamT said:
That's true. Most civilians don't get pensions and lifetime medical care like folks who retire from the Marines.
Click to expand...

And a college education (GI Bill)...

Bunch of freeloaders...
 
Nope got,to pay into the gi bill. Its not automatic thing u get. If you dont sign up for itat boot camp and dont pay in it u dont get it

Cpl USMC MILITARY POLICE K-9 Unit. VIA taptalk.
 
Last edited:
The people of Wisconsin can whine and vote him out, but I think it's a hyper-partisan measure on par with wanting to impeach Obama when you consider the fact that it's due to public union overhaul (that needed to happen).
 
cpgrad08 said:
Penisons dont exist anymore for us younger in the military.
Click to expand...

So you're not actually in the military?

Factors That Determine Your Retired Pay
However there are many factors that determine exactly how much your pension (technically a reduced payment for reduced service) will be. Over the past twenty five years, the government has made some significant changes to the military retirement system.

If you entered the service:
Prior to September 1980 you are eligible for the Final Pay retirement system.

Between September 8th, 1980 and August 1986 you are eligible for the High 36 system.
After August 1986 you are under the REDUX system, which means you have the option to choose either the High 36 retirement system, or the Career Status Bonus/REDUX (CSB) retirement system. If you decline to make a choice you will automatically receive the High 36 retirement plan.
The Similarities

All of these retirement systems have a common thread: if you stay in the armed forces for 20 or more years, you are eligible to receive a pension based on a percentage of your basic pay, and if you stay in for a 40 years, you are eligible for 100% of your basic pay. But that's where the similarities end and the confusion really begins, because each of these systems determines your amount of pension differently.
Click to expand...
 
Actually Im. Those how have been for awhile well be grandfather in and get them but for guys like (been in 5 years) would get a 401k in the DoD efforts to cut spending down.

Cpl USMC MILITARY POLICE K-9 Unit. VIA taptalk.
 
cpgrad08 said:
Actually Im. Those how have been for awhile well be grandfather in and get them but for guys like (been in 5 years) would get a 401k in the DoD efforts to cut spending down.

Cpl USMC MILITARY POLICE K-9 Unit. VIA taptalk.
Click to expand...

Please read your contract. You don't know what you are talking about.
 
The plan it self is not in effect but the dod is getting ready submit there plan to congress.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom