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Thread: Wisconsin governor won't challenge recall signatures

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    Re: Wisconsin governor won't challenge recall signatures

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i am not arguing THAT point. perhaps instead of trying to bust the unions he should focus on the fiscal issues. remember, the union accepted the cuts he proposed.
    I know...from what i read they threw their employees under the bus to ensure they could keep their union membership (dues) free flowing. Walker believes there is a better way and that the union contracts are choking the fiscal life out of the state. If people have a better solution, then they should present it. Obviously no one did prior to his taking office.

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    Re: Wisconsin governor won't challenge recall signatures

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If you get that analysis, please make sure it accounts for the national uptick in the last year due to forces that Walker had nothing at all to do with.
    So basically...you admit that it was horrible and getting worse, and now it is better. Hmmm...shoooooocccckkkkiiiinnnggg.....

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    Re: Wisconsin governor won't challenge recall signatures

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Pretty much all PS union jobs are over compensated (pay and benefits). The discrepancy is even higher in non-skilled positions (such as janitors).
    ok.....got some facts? i do:

    National Institute on Retirement - Out of Balance?


    Jobs in the public sector typically require more education than private sector positions. Thus, state and local employees are twice as likely to hold a college degree or higher as compared to private sector employees. Only 23% of private sector employees have completed college as compared to about 48% in the public sector.

    Wages and salaries of state and local employees are lower than those for private sector employees with comparable earnings determinants such as education and work experience. State workers typically earn 11% less and local workers 12% less.

    During the last 15 years, the pay gap has grown - earnings for state and local workers have generally declined relative to comparable private sector employees.

    The pattern of declining relative earnings remains true in most of the large states examined in the study, although there does exist some state level variation.

    Benefits make up a slightly larger share of compensation for the state and local sector. But even after accounting for the value of retirement, healthcare, and other benefits, state and local employees earn less than private sector counterparts. On average, total compensation is 6.8% lower for state employees and 7.4% lower for local employees than for comparable private sector employees.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Wisconsin governor won't challenge recall signatures

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    So basically...you admit that it was horrible and getting worse, and now it is better. Hmmm...shoooooocccckkkkiiiinnnggg.....
    Where in my post does it say that?

    You seem to be filling in all sorts of material that is not at all there.
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    Re: Wisconsin governor won't challenge recall signatures

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I know...from what i read they threw their employees under the bus to ensure they could keep their union membership (dues) free flowing. Walker believes there is a better way and that the union contracts are choking the fiscal life out of the state. If people have a better solution, then they should present it. Obviously no one did prior to his taking office.
    really? where did you read that? don't the union employees VOTE on contracts?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Wisconsin governor won't challenge recall signatures

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    Yes, there are all types of conflicting studies.

    Those done by organizations to the political left or those that support unions develop studies indicating that PS unions employees are underpaid.

    Those done by organizations to the political right and most newspapers (Seattle Times had an interesting study) show that they are typically overpaid.

    For example, here is the board of directors of the organization you quoted the study from:

    National Institute on Retirement - Board of Directors

    Jim Mosman, NIRS Secretary/Treasurer
    Executive Director, National Council on Teacher Retirement

    Jack Ehnes, Board Member
    Chief Executive Officer, California State Teachers’ Retirement System

    Laurie Fiori Hacking, Board Member
    Executive Director, Minnesota Teachers Retirement Association

    Pat McElligott, Board Member
    President, National Conference on Public Employee Retirement Systems

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    Re: Wisconsin governor won't challenge recall signatures

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    No they didn't. They only paid lip service to accepting them. However, when push came to shove, they still refused to contribute to pensions and health care.
    what do you mean when push came to shove? walker shoved through a bill in a shameful way, that's why he's being recalled.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Wisconsin governor won't challenge recall signatures

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    what do you mean when push came to shove? walker shoved through a bill in a shameful way, that's why he's being recalled.
    Ignoring your opinion on wether it was shameful or not...

    The districts that had new contracts prior to Act10 being completed had the opportunity to agree to pension and insurance contributions in order to save teachers jobs. They refused to make the contributions and teachers were fired so that the district could make budget. Had they made the contributions, no teachers would have been fired.

    Once the unions realized that they were going to lose the battle, they claimed they would agree to pension and health care requirements. This was never an official offer, though. And as evidenced by what happened after ACt10, was just a bunch of smoke so that they could argue they were the reasonable ones.

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    Re: Wisconsin governor won't challenge recall signatures

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    what do you mean when push came to shove? walker shoved through a bill in a shameful way, that's why he's being recalled.
    Was that more or less shameful than WI senators refusing to do thier jobs and vote? In what way was Walker's actions not legally legislative? You say you're not a Union fanboy at all costs, but you sure as hell act like one when you refuse to acknowledge basic well-documented facts surrounding the events..


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    Re: Wisconsin governor won't challenge recall signatures

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    really? where did you read that? don't the union employees VOTE on contracts?
    You dont think there is more than a little bit of pressure from the union leadership for the members to do what the union leadership says? Wasnt there a pretty big push recently for all union members to show who they were and how they voted? No pressure there. I was reading one of the old Zombie threads the other day about the Schultz Washington gathering and the union boss being asked if their membership went because they wanted to or because they were forced to do...I believe his response was...both.

    Look...you have a better way...Im sure people would love to see the answers. A state who was running a greater than 12% budget deficit...you better do something quick fast and in a hurry.

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