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Thread: Another School Shooting

  1. #61
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    Re: Another School Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    we also had state-sanctioned racism, gays were in the closet, women were for the most part stuck at home, etc etc.

    1950 wasn't such a fabulous time to mimic.

    Bud, I said not a damn word about how great racism and sexism were. I said we had no Columbines in the 1950's and that is true. I said we taught children "thou shalt not kill" and we did. I said we had more respect for authority and we did. Nothing I actually said was wrong, until you start throwing in strawmen.

    Racism and sexism needed to be addressed; they have been. Problem is we threw the baby out with the bath water and in the name of critical thinking we threw out almost ALL the values that made us what we were, the good with the bad.

    I never said 1950 was perfect, I specifically said it wasn't. I said we had no Columbines and pointed out some differences I think may contribute.

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    Re: Another School Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    we also had state-sanctioned racism, gays were in the closet, women were for the most part stuck at home, etc etc.

    1950 wasn't such a fabulous time to mimic.
    Yeah, you could leave your doors unlocked, walk down the street without getting mugged. It sucked!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Another School Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Bud, if you don't want to teach your children religion, don't. But by whatever you believe in teach them SOMETHING that gives them a reason to have a little respect for their fellow human beings!

    Don't assume they have it inborn.... they don't.

    Don't assume they'll learn it in school... they won't.

    If you don't want to hang that hook on God, you can hang on whatever nail you like.... humanism, philosophy, enlightened self-interest, whatever melts your butter... but if you don't TEACH them to respect human life and other people and to fear the consequences of bad actions, they're not going to learn it on their own.

    Unraised children tend to grow up to be barbarous adults.

    I will add, if I may, no matter what we want to teach them in many respects we are the only living version of what we they learn and we are studied every minute of every day.
    Last edited by Connery; 02-27-12 at 11:23 PM.

  4. #64
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    Re: Another School Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Bud, I said not a damn word about how great racism and sexism were. I said we had no Columbines in the 1950's and that is true. I said we taught children "thou shalt not kill" and we did. I said we had more respect for authority and we did. Nothing I actually said was wrong, until you start throwing in strawmen.

    Racism and sexism needed to be addressed; they have been. Problem is we threw the baby out with the bath water and in the name of critical thinking we threw out almost ALL the values that made us what we were, the good with the bad.

    I never said 1950 was perfect, I specifically said it wasn't. I said we had no Columbines and pointed out some differences I think may contribute.
    Actually, you did. With the Libbos, everything is good, or everything is bad. Ther's no in between.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #65
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    Re: Another School Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Bud, if you don't want to teach your children religion, don't. But by whatever you believe in teach them SOMETHING that gives them a reason to have a little respect for their fellow human beings!

    Don't assume they have it inborn.... they don't.

    Don't assume they'll learn it in school... they won't.

    If you don't want to hang that hook on God, you can hang on whatever nail you like.... humanism, philosophy, enlightened self-interest, whatever melts your butter... but if you don't TEACH them to respect human life and other people and to fear the consequences of bad actions, they're not going to learn it on their own.

    Unraised children tend to grow up to be barbarous adults.

    I'm all for that. I'm just saying that whether or not you believe in God does not affect discipline.

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    Re: Another School Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    I'm all for that. I'm just saying that whether or not you believe in God does not affect discipline.

    On the contrary, it absolutely does impact discipline. If you believe in God and raise your children to do so as well, you can have someone watching them 24/7, from whom they cannot hide, who evaluates the morality of their every action and burdens their conscience when they consider doing wrong.

    As a parent, I find this terribly useful.


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    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  7. #67
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    Re: Another School Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    On the contrary, it absolutely does impact discipline. If you believe in God and raise your children to do so as well, you can have someone watching them 24/7, from whom they cannot hide, who evaluates the morality of their every action and burdens their conscience when they consider doing wrong.

    As a parent, I find this terribly useful.

    excellent points that I never even considered when I was raising my own! I had to rely on their fear of my psychic abilities.
    (j/k )
    Last edited by lizzie; 02-27-12 at 11:25 PM.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Another School Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    those are adults-21 years and older-ie older than the average M16 toting Pineapple throwing claymore mine setting Nam Infantry man. Older than my nephew was when he first was issued a M4 automatic carbine and given the authority to call in a 105 howitzer strike on occupied buildings
    I think Liberty University's policy has just recently changed, in December or January, and only those with valid CCW permits are allowed to carry. All are adults. Visitors can only carry in locked cars, and only some teachers are allowed to carry.

  9. #69
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    Re: Another School Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    On the contrary, it absolutely does impact discipline. If you believe in God and raise your children to do so as well, you can have someone watching them 24/7, from whom they cannot hide, who evaluates the morality of their every action and burdens their conscience when they consider doing wrong.

    As a parent, I find this terribly useful.

    It could be a useful tool, but there are other ways to discipline children. I'm not anti religious as I am Christian and proud of it. But an atheist can be just as good of a parent.
    Last edited by TheLastIndependent; 02-27-12 at 11:35 PM. Reason: Misused their there they're like a pure genius

  10. #70
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    Re: Another School Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    It could be a useful tool, but their are other ways to discipline children. I'm not anti religious as I am Christian and proud of it. But an atheist can be just as good of a parent.
    There are other ways, no doubt, and the disclipine should fit the child. Some kids need gentle guidance, and others need a firm authoritative hand. Where we have gone wrong is in believing that children are more complicated and intelligent than they actually are. Children are insecure, as they should be. They need to know that someone else is in control until they are able to control themselves. They need to learn that there is more to life than immediate gratification and getting the things that they want at their every whim. Life is hard, and it sometimes causes emotional pain. They need to learn how to deal with painful situations in a controlled manner, otherwise they will be subject to hurting every time something doesn't go the way they envisioned it should. When people don't learn to deal with disappointment, they will do rash and dangerous things.

    One of my sisters had three children, all of which were sweet, compliant little angels. I had two boys, both of which had a rebellious adventurous nature (imagine that ). My sister's children didn't require much in the way of disclipine. Their natures didn't need it. My boys needed someone with the disposition to handle defiance. It's similar to raising various dog breeds in a way. A doberman needs an owner who can handle him well. A bassett hound just needs to sit in your lap to be happy.
    Last edited by lizzie; 02-27-12 at 11:42 PM.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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