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Thread: NYPD surveillance of students called 'disgusting'

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    Re: NYPD surveillance of students called 'disgusting'

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    ...you mentioned the 40 arrests...
    well, if no charges have been filed, then they have ALL been released.

    the fact that Kelly didn't mention any convictions......or even any charges being filed...says a lot about how valuable this program was.

    hundreds of folks were detained after 9-11, and almost all of them were released with no charges being pressed.

    getting arrested, doesn't mean **** if no charges are pressed.

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    Re: NYPD surveillance of students called 'disgusting'

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    there is a reason that these activities are termed "covert"
    coloring within the lines as you insist will not aid their efforts. so, choose between process or results



    So when a Newark cop puts two in the chest and one in the head of an NYPD under cover officer, You still will consider it "good policing"?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: NYPD surveillance of students called 'disgusting'

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i believe you will agree that terrorists are not limited to a particular jurisdiction to inflict their harm. so, why is it found reasonable to restrict the ability of our police to stop their terrorist actions when those actions occur outside a particular jurisdiction
    why is this believed to be necessary?
    you want the police to interrupt terrorists while they are plotting their attacks or do you want them to expose their covert sources. choose one
    that very rich man is also very smart. he recognizes that his ass will be on the line to answer to his constituents if it is learned that his police were able to ferret out terrorist activity but stopped their interdiction because the terrorists crossed the NYC border into another jurisdiction
    i believe intercepting terrorists is more important that coloring between the lines, only because you have always colored between the lines and expect everyone else to do the same
    it is that kind of mentality which exposes our society to the harm of terrorists. they exploit our rules against us. it's like the british pissing and moaning because the patriots refused to line up and fight according to the then accepted rules of war. they thought it was uncivil for those patriots to use guerrilla warfare against them, hiding and firing at their officers. notice which side prevailed. (hint: it was not the one that insisted on coloring within the lines)
    Your argument fails on many levels. First, Daley states that his first priority is to protect the people. No it's not. The first priority of any police force is to enforce the laws of his jurisdiction, in their jurisdiction. Both Daley and Bloomie seem to take the position that since they believe in something, it is therefore their duty to enforce wherever their ideas take them. If you believe that students in NJ are planning something or NYC criminals are hiding or operating in AZ, there are ways to proceed, and they all involve cooperation between the affected LE agencies. Going on a fishing expedition outside your own boundaries, or setting up stings in other jurisdictions are outside their job description. In any case, a warrant is required, and most likely would not be issued to an outside LE group without the knowledge of local jurisdictions.

    Surveillance of groups or citizens requires a warrant. I did not agree with Bush authorizing warrantless wire taps, I do not agree with NYC officials taking it upon themselves to enforce laws outside their own jurisdiction. For that matter, I am not even sure that terrorist issues fall under local jurisdiction. Isn't that a matter for Homeland Security?

    All of your arguments can be overcome without violating the law. Daley and Bloomie simply think they are above the law. Unfortunately, there is the Constitution and rule of law that says otherwise.

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    Re: NYPD surveillance of students called 'disgusting'

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    So when a Newark cop puts two in the chest and one in the head of an NYPD under cover officer, You still will consider it "good policing"?
    hence, the need for coordination between police departments.

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    Re: NYPD surveillance of students called 'disgusting'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    hence, the need for coordination between police departments.
    One question, Thumder, does MYC or NY even have an anti terrorist law for Kelley to enforce? I'm asking because I do not know.

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    Re: NYPD surveillance of students called 'disgusting'

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    One question, Thumder, does MYC or NY even have an anti terrorist law for Kelley to enforce? I'm asking because I do not know.
    yes, there is a crime of "terrorism", in the NYS penal code.

    dude, terrorists have been striking this city since the early 20th century.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_bombing
    Last edited by Thunder; 02-28-12 at 02:43 PM.

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    Re: NYPD surveillance of students called 'disgusting'

    Well, from what I can tell, there is nothing illegal about what the NYC cops did. Can someone point it out please? Unethtical, discriminatory, maybe, but illegal? Not seeing it. Cops from any jurisdiction are not barred legally from surveilling potential suspects or persons of interest from any other jurisdiction. Tis true that there is a courtesy involved but nothing that I can see that mandates a police organization from practicing policing in another jurisdiction?


    Tim-
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    Re: NYPD surveillance of students called 'disgusting'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Well, from what I can tell, there is nothing illegal about what the NYC cops did. Can someone point it out please? Unethtical, discriminatory, maybe, but illegal? Not seeing it. Cops from any jurisdiction are not barred legally from surveilling potential suspects or persons of interest from any other jurisdiction. Tis true that there is a courtesy involved but nothing that I can see that mandates a police organization from practicing policing in another jurisdiction?

    Tim-
    well, first we have to see if there actions would be considered illegal, if done by a private citizen. if that's the case, then charges can be pressed.

    however, if no laws were actually broken, and this is simply a matter of juridictional over-stepping, then perhaps states need to pass a law making it a crime for law enforcement from another state to conduct any investigation or surveillance in their state, without the knowledge and cooperation of the jurisdictionally relevant police department.

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    Re: NYPD surveillance of students called 'disgusting'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    well, first we have to see if there actions would be considered illegal, if done by a private citizen. if that's the case, then charges can be pressed.

    however, if no laws were actually broken, and this is simply a matter of juridictional over-stepping, then perhaps states need to pass a law making it a crime for law enforcement from another state to conduct any investigation or surveillance in their state, without the knowledge and cooperation of the jurisdictionally relevant police department.

    Why? If they make an arrest then sure, but why the need to alert local authorities of surveillance alone? heck, I'm not even sure that any police force cannot already make an arrest in any other juridiction? Of course the courts look at it differently and the prosecution needs to occur in the proper jursidiction but as far as arrests are concerned, I see no legal barrier??


    Tim-
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    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: NYPD surveillance of students called 'disgusting'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Why? If they make an arrest then sure...
    what makes you think NYPD have the right to make an arrest outside of New York?

    guess what....they don't.

    when they leave New York State, they are regular citizens.....and have no right to carry their guns or make arrests.

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