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Thread: Claim surfaces of Anne Frank baptism by Mormons

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    Re: Claim surfaces of Anne Frank baptism by Mormons

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    1 Corinthians 15:29 is, IIRC, the only source in the NT that refers to this...
    so it isn't exactly a new concept, in case anyone was thinking that.

    as for purgatory, or spirit world, I don't know of any NT reference to either.

    That in my understanding is that in the NT under Romans 10:9-10 purgatory is no longer an option as Jesus died for your sins.


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    Re: Claim surfaces of Anne Frank baptism by Mormons

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    "They" the people who oppress and push their beliefs on others, take away rights, take away your spirit and maybe your life.
    You can't take away someone's spirit/soul.

    Also, sounds like "they" are very much in line with militant atheist states and Islamic theocracies (you can even read recent reports about the Iranian government taking away someone's rights and life over their Christian faith).
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    Re: Claim surfaces of Anne Frank baptism by Mormons

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Not all Christians believe in purgatory or a medium spiritual world. My beliefs that are after death judgement follows with heaven or hell being the result. Me, my family, nor anyone in my church or parent's denominatino believe in purgatory or that we can pray for the dead.
    .. I stand corrected... i seem to have shanked that one..

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    Re: Claim surfaces of Anne Frank baptism by Mormons

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So your outrage is selective here...Got it...


    Don't try and confuse the issue...Are you trying to imply here that you think that the administration imposing the coverage of BC on the Church as a mandate is wrong? I don't understand what the Mormon church is doing by doing this, but in the end do we really know enough about who within the LDS reasons are for this?

    See, I think you brought it up as an attack against Romney to tie him to this type of stuff in order to smear him in a bigoted way that really has no place in politics today unless you are willing to have the Rev Wright debate brought up. So, I'd tread lightly if I were you.


    j-mac
    When did I say anything about birth control or the presidential campaign? My complaint is that someone, does not matter who it is, mormon, jehovah, protestant, islamic, wiccan, catholic, whatever is placing their beliefs on another person. It happens when people are alive, and now it apparently happens when they are dead and I find that disrespectful.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

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    -- Chaos Theory

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    Re: Claim surfaces of Anne Frank baptism by Mormons

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    When did I say anything about birth control or the presidential campaign? My complaint is that someone, does not matter who it is, mormon, jehovah, protestant, islamic, wiccan, catholic, whatever is placing their beliefs on another person. It happens when people are alive, and now it apparently happens when they are dead and I find that disrespectful.

    Right. You find it disrespectful of her Jewish heritage, and belief, and that of Jews in general. Well, Christians find it disrespectful of liberals that are making their BC arguments against the beliefs of the Catholic Church, which is (now pay attention here) why I brought it up.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Claim surfaces of Anne Frank baptism by Mormons

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    i'm still not sure about your personal religious preference.... and i'm a bit puzzled as to where you gained the beliefs that the dead cannot "stand' for themselves.
    as far as i'm aware, every Christian denomination believes in life after death... the spirit lives on.

    every Christianity denomination .. (and i believe, Judaism) , belief in some sort of intermediate state where after-death purification can take place (Mormons call it the "spirit world" some call it "purgatory").... i mean, it's the entire basis for praying for the dead

    Why do I need a preference and why are multiple people speaking as if judeo-christian beliefs are the only ones out there? It does not matter who presses their beliefs on you. If it is the basis for praying for the dead then why can't they just pray instead of performing a ceremony for someone who does not agree with their beliefs -- it screams "I don't respect your faith"

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

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    Re: Claim surfaces of Anne Frank baptism by Mormons

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Right. You find it disrespectful of her Jewish heritage, and belief, and that of Jews in general. Well, Christians find it disrespectful of liberals that are making their BC arguments against the beliefs of the Catholic Church, which is (now pay attention here) why I brought it up.
    j-mac


    This has nothing to do with BC. This is about respecting fundamental beliefs about life, involving morals, life and death, who walks with you when you are in pain, what happens after life, why are we here. If you want to talk about BC I suggest you go to the appropriate thread.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

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    Re: Claim surfaces of Anne Frank baptism by Mormons

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Why do I need a preference and why are multiple people speaking as if judeo-christian beliefs are the only ones out there? It does not matter who presses their beliefs on you. If it is the basis for praying for the dead then why can't they just pray instead of performing a ceremony for someone who does not agree with their beliefs -- it screams "I don't respect your faith"
    you don't need a preference and judeo-christian beliefs aren't the only one out there.... but they are, nonetheless, out there.

    I don't really get the feeling this conversation is going anywhere.... like i said before, if you want to be offended by this, there is nothing anyone else can do to change that.... it seem you really really want to believe that this is disrespectful and arrogant... and i'm perfectly fine with you believing that.

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    Re: Claim surfaces of Anne Frank baptism by Mormons

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    you don't need a preference and judeo-christian beliefs aren't the only one out there.... but they are, nonetheless, out there.

    I don't really get the feeling this conversation is going anywhere.... like i said before, if you want to be offended by this, there is nothing anyone else can do to change that.... it seem you really really want to believe that this is disrespectful and arrogant... and i'm perfectly fine with you believing that.
    I guess I am just not understanding why no one else finds this offensive or at least icky in some way. No one has said "I think they should be able to do it because...." It has mostly been an argument about.... I don't even know at this point. j-mac even brought in the presidential campaign.

    I have said that I find it offensive and it is pushing your beliefs on someone who can't say NO because they are dead. Would you be offended if someone baptized you while you were alive without your permission?

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

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    Re: Claim surfaces of Anne Frank baptism by Mormons

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    I guess I am just not understanding why no one else finds this offensive or at least icky in some way. No one has said "I think they should be able to do it because...." It has mostly been an argument about.... I don't even know at this point. j-mac even brought in the presidential campaign.

    I have said that I find it offensive and it is pushing your beliefs on someone who can't say NO because they are dead. Would you be offended if someone baptized you while you were alive without your permission?
    I agree with you on the position that what the Mormons did was offensive towards the family. Although I do not believe we can force our beliefs upon a dead person. They are dead and cannot hold those beliefs. I also don't believe in any kind of spiritual validity behind post-humus baptisms.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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