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ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

Karl said:
Unlikely, since it would make the report exceedingly stupid for calling foreigners "Americans" and "citizens" :lamo
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The report is worded pretty stupidly. It says nothing. Why is it that 15 million couldn't prove they were citizens?
 
MoSurveyor said:
In MO I wouldn't need the SS card - but it's not good enough for proof of date of birth/place of birth as required.
To get a MO State ID card I would need my birth certificate.

Here's the MO State home page, it's on there, have a ball - there's a search box at the top:

MO.gov | Official Website of the State of Missouri
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Here we go again......You DO NOT need a state I.D. card to register to vote. You need absolutely nothing.

You do not need to provide identification to register. However, you will be required to show ID at the polls or provide ID with your absentee ballot.

Now, when you show up you need as little as an utility bill.

•A copy of a current utility bill

But for most, the voter registration card will likely suffice that you would get when you register.

•ID issued by the state of Missouri, an agency of the state, or a local election authority of the state

Even then, just like Florida, you can show up with absolutely nothing and still vote.

Do we have to do this with all 50 states?
 
1Perry said:
Here we go again......You DO NOT need a state I.D. card to register to vote. You need absolutely nothing.
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I'm well aware of the laws here in the wonderful State of Missouri. :) When I got my license ~40 years ago I didn't need anything to prove who I was except my paper library card from high school. When my daughter got hers 30 years later she needed a birth certificate. Somewhere in between those times the law changed - probably ~1980 when we were revising all the Statutes.

The post you initially responded to (that starts off "Getting the ID takes documentation") was my response to an on-going side discussion I was having with Dittohead Not! about the added cost of obtaining a photo ID even if the State didn't charge for the ID itself. See posts #424/428/429/etc. I'm sorry you were confused.

I never said anyone needed a photo ID to vote (or register to vote) in Missouri because I sure as hell know better from years of experience living with it; Internet research not required. Missouri issues stiff paper voter ID cards for free and sent by mail to confirm the address. (Mine's 15+ years old from the last time we moved.) You can present those (which I did the first time so I could check the info on it), or your DL/other photo ID (which most use except older people, who often use their card), and yes I even saw a woman use her electric bill once because she happened to pick up the mail on the way out that morning and she didn't want to retrieve her DL from the car. I've never personally witnesses someone who had to resort to the sign and sign routine.
 
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taxigirl said:
If not the ACLU then pick your source. Several other organizations have filed suit as well, people were turned away from the polls because they did not have ID. Some people cannot get ID because of lacking Birth Certificates for various reasons, lacking transportation to get somewhere to get ID, etc...
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Cry us a river, wahahahahahaha. Woe is me I have no car, no bus, no train, no plane. A poor sack like that has more important concerns than voting, like their next meal or a place to sleep. Get a clue.
 
American said:
Cry us a river, wahahahahahaha. Woe is me I have no car, no bus, no train, no plane. A poor sack like that has more important concerns than voting, like their next meal or a place to sleep. Get a clue.
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Perhaps they could vote for someone who wishes to regulate the economy in a proper manner that they may garner employment, assistance, etc.
Wouldn't that be insane? /s
 
1Perry said:
[...] Even then, just like Florida, you can show up with absolutely nothing and still vote.
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Even assuming your claim is correct, not on Sunday.

Florida has eliminated early voting on the last Sunday before Election Day.

According to the study, African-American voters -- and to a lesser extent, Hispanic voters -- vote on Sundays at a proportionately larger rate than white voters.

New Voting Laws in Florida and 13 Other States May Affect 5 Million Eligible Voters, Study Says - Broward/Palm Beach News - The Daily Pulp
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Come on... we all know what's going on here.

1Perry said:
Do we have to do this with all 50 states?
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Sure. You've got everything to lose :mrgreen:

3.2 million voters affected by new photo ID laws. New photo ID laws for voting will be in effect for the 2012 election in five states (Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Wisconsin), [...]

240,000 additional citizens and potential voters affected by new proof of citizenship laws. New proof of citizenship laws will be in effect in three states (Alabama, Kansas, Tennessee), two of which will also have new photo ID laws. [...]

http://brennan.3cdn.net/34876f1cabd6d0e252_kwm6id7l7.pdf
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Karl said:
[...]
In 2011, 34 states introduced legislation requiring voters to show government-issued photo identification before voting [...]

Voter ID laws keep citizens from voting | The Colorado Independent
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Come on... we all know what's going on here.
 
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1Perry said:
The report is worded pretty stupidly. It says nothing. Why is it that 15 million couldn't prove they were citizens?
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Have you considered the possibility that the fault is not with the report?
 
I can't help but wonder about all those old people who lack birth certificates and ID: How do they get their Social Security and Medicare?

Sooner or later, everyone needs to have a BC anyway. How else do we know who is a citizen and who is not?
 
So . . . no one has any actual data on how many people don't have photo IDs, and who/where they are?
 
MKULTRABOY said:
Perhaps they could vote for someone who wishes to regulate the economy in a proper manner that they may garner employment, assistance, etc.
Wouldn't that be insane? /s
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Why stop there? Just vote someone in that will have the balls to say that he is nationalizing all business in America, private property will now be taken and distributed among the proletariat (er, ummm) I mean the people. And income will now all derive in the form of a monthly stipend from the US Treasury.....

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Why stop there? Just vote someone in that will have the balls to say that he is nationalizing all business in America, private property will now be taken and distributed among the proletariat (er, ummm) I mean the people. And income will now all derive in the form of a monthly stipend from the US Treasury.....

j-mac
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or go totally the other way and not regulate any industry. That strategy worked well in the 19th. century, you know.

Oh, yes, and the mortgage industry did a great job of regulating itself at the beginning of the 21st.
 
Dittohead not! said:
or go totally the other way and not regulate any industry. That strategy worked well in the 19th. century, you know.

Oh, yes, and the mortgage industry did a great job of regulating itself at the beginning of the 21st.
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Now Ditto, I like ya dude, but let's not take the leap into total misinformation...Need I post the testimony yet again?

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Why stop there? Just vote someone in that will have the balls to say that he is nationalizing all business in America, private property will now be taken and distributed among the proletariat (er, ummm) I mean the people. And income will now all derive in the form of a monthly stipend from the US Treasury.....

j-mac
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This is absurd J, only a few strategic industries really need to be nationalized to save money and put them towards the ends they are meant to accomplish without a profit motive that gouges us and fubars our economy.
 
MKULTRABOY said:
This is absurd J, only a few strategic industries really need to be nationalized to save money and put them towards the ends they are meant to accomplish without a profit motive that gouges us and fubars our economy.
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Just so we are on the same page, you ARE in favor of nationalizing US industries?


j-mac
 
American said:
Cry us a river, wahahahahahaha. Woe is me I have no car, no bus, no train, no plane. A poor sack like that has more important concerns than voting, like their next meal or a place to sleep. Get a clue.
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Isn't that the point that many people have been making on this thread? Poor people can't vote?

I'm not saying that IS the motivation behind it, that is kind of why I started the thread, but I think you made the point for us. Thanks!
 
j-mac said:
Just so we are on the same page, you ARE in favor of nationalizing US industries?


j-mac
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Oil, medicine... that's all I can really think of. There are many excellent foreign examples.
This of course is hypothetical, as great as it would be we certainly couldn't kill the leaders of oil companies or BioPharm companies.... the bastards.
 
taxigirl said:
We have gone through so many years in the United States without Voter ID laws, and we now suddenly need them? Voter fraud is not something that is not common in the United States and this seems like an attempt to disenfranchise certain sets of voters. :usflag2:
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Through your use of a double negative, you affirm that voter fraud is in fact a common problem in this country, so why would actions to prevent fraud be cause of concern? The democrats always seem to make an issue of race that has nothing to do with race, to me it seems like a very simple requirement to verify a voter's identity, and in fact, I am baffled that we haven't implemented it sooner. Or maybe we should just continue on the honor system?

I'm about as libertarian as they come, and am against almost all new programs imposed by the government, but I would see no problem with the government issuing an ID for citizens on a volunteer basis who are too poor to afford it and would like to vote.
 
j-mac said:
What? Venezuela? Cuba? yep, great examples....Oh brother.


j-mac
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And many countries with higher standards of living that aren't going broke over their healthcare. And don't have like 10 oil tycoons controlling a quarter of the country's wealth by one means or another.

And Venezuela has had nationalized oil virtually for decades, they supply a tenth of the US's demand nicely and they're able to drive their cars at 50c a gallon. As a natural resource on the countries territory it belongs to the people whether you deny it or not.
 
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RabidAlpaca said:
Through your use of a double negative, you affirm that voter fraud is in fact a common problem in this country, so why would actions to prevent fraud be cause of concern? The democrats always seem to make an issue of race that has nothing to do with race, to me it seems like a very simple requirement to verify a voter's identity, and in fact, I am baffled that we haven't implemented it sooner. Or maybe we should just continue on the honor system?

I'm about as libertarian as they come, and am against almost all new programs imposed by the government, but I would see no problem with the government issuing an ID for citizens on a volunteer basis who are too poor to afford it and would like to vote.
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I did not notice my typo, but my intent was this: Voter fraud is not something that is common in the United States, note the absense of the second not.
I will not argue who / what the intent is. GOP argues for less regulation and they push for this? Dems argue the intent is to disenfranshise people who typically vote for them, I don't know. What is wrong with the homor system? Everyone seem to think someone is "out to get them". Are there that many dishonest people, or is there just something other than fluoride in the water?
 
Dittohead not! said:
I can't help but wonder about all those old people who lack birth certificates and ID: How do they get their Social Security and Medicare?

Sooner or later, everyone needs to have a BC anyway. How else do we know who is a citizen and who is not?
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If you mean as far as getting their SSN & etc, ID's weren't really required that much years ago. As I said earlier, I've managed to live 50+ years w/out a copy of my BC and I've got all the standard ID & other cards/junk most people have. Never had to show a BC in my life. I was born in the city so mine's on record and relatively easy to get if I need one - but I won't. My father didn't have a BC. If he were still alive it'd be damn hard for him to prove who he is. My mother could get one if needed, her birth county was fairly large.

Around here by ~1950 (IIRC) it was common practice to record births even in small rural counties. If they want to make things simple they should just cut it off there. Earlier than 1950 let them use their SS card (if needed) to get the State ID. That would leave darn few qualified voters without a relatively easy means of identifying themselves.
 
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MKULTRABOY said:
And many countries with higher standards of living that aren't going broke over their healthcare.
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Such as?

And don't have like 10 oil tycoons controlling a quarter of the country's wealth by one means or another.
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Spare me the liberal pap please.

And Venezuela has had nationalized oil virtually for decades, they supply a tenth of the US's demand nicely
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I hate that we buy from them. It is arguably the dirtiest crude on the market, and we are probably the only place that has the capability to refine it. This is why I don't by CITGO gas.

and they're able to drive their cars at 50c a gallon.
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But, but, I thought oil was ALL derived from a global market? How is it that they can pay that? You mean they refine their own oil and use it? But we can't is that right?

As a natural resource on the countries territory it belongs to the people whether you deny it or not.
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Ok, if it is mine, I can say Drill!


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Now Ditto, I like ya dude, but let's not take the leap into total misinformation...Need I post the testimony yet again?

j-mac
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You have testimony about how wonderfully well capitalism worked back in the 19th. century, without that pesky government regulation? I suppose compared to actual socialism, it may have been somewhat better.

Maybe you could cite the Grapes of Wrath... no, that was early 20th. century, wasn't it?
 
Dittohead not! said:
You have testimony about how wonderfully well capitalism worked back in the 19th. century, without that pesky government regulation? I suppose compared to actual socialism, it may have been somewhat better.

Maybe you could cite the Grapes of Wrath... no, that was early 20th. century, wasn't it?
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Cute...But I am sure you've seen it...You know the one I have been posting since WS showing demo's attacking the Fannie regulator, while the repubs warned of impending down fall....So I won't post it again...But I think we both know who was pushing this crap, and who wasn't.


j-mac
 
Karl said:
Have you considered the possibility that the fault is not with the report?
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Why is it that 15 million wouldn't be able to prove they are citizens?
 
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