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ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

Sure, who doesn't know that DMV's are typically models of efficiency? For real?

In any case, it has been PROVEN that voter ID laws reduce participation. Petending that they don't, or arguing that they *shouldn't* isn't much of an argument.

For real. Last time I renewed my driver's license, I did what most of the complainers evidently don't do, made an appointment. I looked at my watch as I entered the building: 2 minutes early. I got a picture, proved I could still see, got a thumb print, paid my money, and left three minutes past my appointment time. Pretty efficient, it seems to me.

As for proving that requiring a photo ID reduces voter turn out, how do we know that the reduction isn't equal to number of fraudulent voters?
 
Absolutely. Your rantings are just that.



I've stated that if there was a legit arguement about how this would restrict voting rights, present it. Just to note, I've seen arguements that illegals should be allowed to vote on message boards also.

Your posts prove that denial is not just a river in Egypt.

The GOP War on Voting | Politics News | Rolling Stone

just the opening

As the nation gears up for the 2012 presidential election, Republican officials have launched an unprecedented, centrally coordinated campaign to suppress the elements of the Democratic vote that elected Barack Obama in 2008. Just as Dixiecrats once used poll taxes and literacy tests to bar black Southerners from voting, a new crop of GOP governors and state legislators has passed a series of seemingly disconnected measures that could prevent millions of students, minorities, immigrants, ex-convicts and the elderly from casting ballots. "What has happened this year is the most significant setback to voting rights in this country in a century," says Judith Browne-Dianis, who monitors barriers to voting as co-director of the Advancement Project, a civil rights organization based in Washington, D.C. Republicans have long tried to drive Democratic voters away from the polls. "I don't want everybody to vote," the influential conservative activist Paul Weyrich told a gathering of evangelical leaders in 1980. "As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down." But since the 2010 election, thanks to a conservative advocacy group founded by Weyrich, the GOP's effort to disrupt voting rights has been more widespread and effective than ever. In a systematic campaign orchestrated by the American Legislative Exchange Council – and funded in part by David and Charles Koch, the billionaire brothers who bankrolled the Tea Party – 38 states introduced legislation this year designed to impede voters at every step of the electoral process.

All told, a dozen states have approved new obstacles to voting. Kansas and Alabama now require would-be voters to provide proof of citizenship before registering. Florida and Texas made it harder for groups like the League of Women Voters to register new voters. Maine repealed Election Day voter registration, which had been on the books since 1973. Five states – Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Tennessee and West Virginia – cut short their early voting periods. Florida and Iowa barred all ex-felons from the polls, disenfranchising thousands of previously eligible voters. And six states controlled by Republican governors and legislatures – Alabama, Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin – will require voters to produce a government-issued ID before casting ballots. More than 10 percent of U.S. citizens lack such identification, and the numbers are even higher among constituencies that traditionally lean Democratic – including 18 percent of young voters and 25 percent of African-Americans.

Read it all and learn. And then read this


http://thinkprogress.org/progress-report/what-states-are-doing-to-restrict-voting-rights/

again, just the opening

Perhaps the most nefarious legislation to pop up in states over the past year have been new laws intended to make it more difficult for people to vote. In an unprecedented move, Republican-controlled legislatures have passed a wide range of new bills in 2011 that will restrict, rather than broaden, access to the ballot box. As a result, the Brennan Center for Justice estimates that as many as 5 million voters could be disenfranchised in the 2012 election. These new laws could be enough, Rolling Stone writes, “to shift the outcome in favor of the GOP.” Indeed, with poorer voters and minorities hit hardest by the new restrictions, Republicans could see an electoral windfall in 2012 simply by changing election rules. Thirty-one years after Paul Weyrich, co-founder of the Heritage Foundation and father of the modern conservative movement, told a Dallas crowd that “I don’t want everybody to vote,” Republicans are making good on his call to making voting more difficult in the United States. Let’s take a closer look at the different ways in which states are make voting significantly more difficult.

WAR ON VOTING: Perhaps the most sweeping change in voting rights since the 2010 election is the proliferation of state laws requiring citizens to present photo identification in order to vote. First introduced in Indiana in 2008, new “photo ID” laws have the potential to disenfranchise 3.2 million voters, mostly poorer residents and minorities. This was plainly evident when a group of retired nuns in the Hoosier State were turned away from voting in the 2008 primary election because they lacked proper photo identification. Three years later, half a dozen new states have followed Indiana’s lead: Georgia, Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Wisconsin. Rather than each state independently concluding that they needed a photo ID law, model legislation was pushed to state lawmakers by the right-wing corporate front group American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). In South Carolina alone, a new study warns that “nearly 180,000 voters – most of whom are elderly, student, minority or low-income voters – will be disenfranchised as a result of this discriminatory bill.” Meanwhile, a 96-year-old Tennessee woman named Dorothy Cooper attempted to comply with her state’s new photo ID law this month, only to be denied a voter ID because she didn’t have her marriage certificate. Cooper later told MSNBC that her experience now is worse than in the Jim Crow era. Unperturbed, some politicians like Herman Cain and Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) have thrown their support behind a national photo ID law. The war on voting isn’t just restricted to new photo ID laws; five states – Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Tennessee, and West Virginia – have reduced their early voting periods as well.

Please do read it all. Then read this one

http://www.nationofchange.org/watching-gop-war-voting-rights-1321723238

just a small part - please read it all

With the election season on the horizon a new report is warning the legal disenfranchisement of voters threatens to play a decisive role in next year’s vote. According to the Brennan Center for Justice, a non partisan policy institute change to voting laws could strip the voting rights of more than 5 million people, a higher number than the margin of victory in two of the last three presidential elections. It’s findings show that new laws regarding photo identification requirements for voting, eliminating same day voter registration in several states, requiring proof of citizenship to register to vote, changing requirements for voter registration drives, reducing early voting days and restoring the right to vote for convicted felons will make voting harder and swing the 1964 Voting Rights pendulum backward.

The report predicts the new curbs will have a major impact on those inclined to vote for Democratic candidates saying “these new restrictions fall most heavily on young, minority and low income voters as well as on voters with disabilities.”

and this

http://somewhereinthemiddle2011.blogspot.com/2012/02/vote-2012-conservative-war-on-voting.html

and this

http://www.protectingthevote.com/
 
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Read it all and learn.

And six states controlled by Republican governors and legislatures – Alabama, Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin – will require voters to produce a government-issued ID before casting ballots. More than 10 percent of U.S. citizens lack such identification, and the numbers are even higher among constituencies that traditionally lean Democratic – including 18 percent of young voters and 25 percent of African-Americans.


Give them one. It's such a big deal if we simply give them one? I call B.S.that 25 percent of A.A. don't drive. I can't think of even one young voter that doesn't have a D.L. today. I think we can dismiss this theory.

Sorry, I hit reply before you added the other link. I'll read it now to see if it is any more valid.

edit: The second link simple repeats the info from the first one.

edit again: The last link is talking about fraud and illegal activites. Something we are not discussing.
 
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Its a piss poor attempt to stop illegals from voting. The problem with this is that it has a chance of preventing poor and the elderly from voting (usually have expired IDs) The obvious fix to that ONE problem (because requiring IDs is actually a good idea) is to give IDs to poor people for free.
 
The only point of providing links from some partisan site is to prove that someone out there agrees with you. I think most everyone would concede that, but it doesn't make your case any more convincing unless someone already agrees. It's a bit silly, ain't it?
 
Its a piss poor attempt to stop illegals from voting. The problem with this is that it has a chance of preventing poor and the elderly from voting (usually have expired IDs) The obvious fix to that ONE problem (because requiring IDs is actually a good idea) is to give IDs to poor people for free.

I seriously doubt than many illegals try to vote. The ones I've known have pretty much uniformly tried to keep as low of a profile as possible.

And yes, the obvious fix is to give the poor and elderly IDs for free. They can use them for other things besides voting, after all, and so should have one.

Hey! Anybody know who this guy is that just collapsed in the street? He's unconscious, and can't tell us, after all. Hurry! Call 911! Anybody know what his medical history is? Of course not, since no one knows even who he is.

Having a picture ID handy can be a good thing, even for the few who don't drive cars.
 
The only point of providing links from some partisan site is to prove that someone out there agrees with you. I think most everyone would concede that, but it doesn't make your case any more convincing unless someone already agrees. It's a bit silly, ain't it?

If you can dispute any of the facts there, please do so.

What is more than a bit silly is the denial that right wingers persist in. Look, lets be really frank and up front here. The US Census tells us that sometime in the next thirty to forty years, white folks are going to the be minority in the nation. They will comprise less than 50% of the population. And we all know that the Republican Party is pretty much the white folks party. So what happens to their chances of winning elections with each passing cycle as the nation becomes less and less the type of person who votes Republican? How do they win election when they cannot turn their back on the far righties who now make up so much of the GOP?

Answer: make sure less and less of the other side can vote. You rig the game - you stack the deck - you take players out of the line up - you cheat.

That is what this is about pure and simple.
 
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I seriously doubt than many illegals try to vote. The ones I've known have pretty much uniformly tried to keep as low of a profile as possible.

And yes, the obvious fix is to give the poor and elderly IDs for free. They can use them for other things besides voting, after all, and so should have one.

Hey! Anybody know who this guy is that just collapsed in the street? He's unconscious, and can't tell us, after all. Hurry! Call 911! Anybody know what his medical history is? Of course not, since no one knows even who he is.

Having a picture ID handy can be a good thing, even for the few who don't drive cars.

It honestly is an attempt by Repubs to engage in class warfare. Just like removing voting places from rual areas, poor negiborhoods, etc
 
Its a piss poor attempt to stop illegals from voting. The problem with this is that it has a chance of preventing poor and the elderly from voting (usually have expired IDs) The obvious fix to that ONE problem (because requiring IDs is actually a good idea) is to give IDs to poor people for free.

The problem with that is you're just lowering the bar once again to cater to the lowest common denominator. If the poor or elderly have no ID, whose fault is that? The cost is minimal, but let's assume that we do it for free, do you seriously think these people are going to go to the DMV and pick them up? What next? Oh no, we have to hand-deliver all of the IDs to everyone, door to door! Oh no, we have to fill out their forms because they're too lazy! Oh no, we have to do all the work and go vote for them too!

If they're too damn stupid or lazy to go get an ID, I don't want them voting.
 
If you can dispute any of the facts there, please do so.

What is more than a nit silly is the denial that right wingers persist in. Look, lets be really frank and up front here. The US Census tells us that sometime in the next thirty to forty years, white folks are going to the be minority in the nation. They will comprise less than 50% of the population. And we all know that the Republican Party is pretty much the white folks party. So what happens to their chances of winning elections with each passing cycle as the nation becomes less and less the type of person who votes Republican? How do they win election when they cannot turn their back on the far righties who now make up so much of the GOP?

Answer: make sure less and less of the other side can vote. You rig the game - you stack the deck - you take players out of the line up - you cheat.

That is what this is about pure and simple.
Yeah, I'd heard that after Obama got elected, then came the mid-terms. You seem to take the slavish devotion of minorities to the Democratic party for ganted. Even minorities dislike poverty and convincing them that they should live in it can only go so far.
 
Its a piss poor attempt to stop illegals from voting. The problem with this is that it has a chance of preventing poor and the elderly from voting (usually have expired IDs) The obvious fix to that ONE problem (because requiring IDs is actually a good idea) is to give IDs to poor people for free.

As I noted early on, the only way you can do this is to make it free.
 
As I noted early on, the only way you can do this is to make it free.

No, the only way you can do it is make people responsible and responsibility in America is a bad word today.
 
The only point of providing links from some partisan site is to prove that someone out there agrees with you. I think most everyone would concede that, but it doesn't make your case any more convincing unless someone already agrees. It's a bit silly, ain't it?

Providing links from a partisan site can be useful and help make your point. I would prefer this over nothing but the referenced articles actually have to have facts to back up your position. Not just opinion.
 
The problem with that is you're just lowering the bar once again to cater to the lowest common denominator. If the poor or elderly have no ID, whose fault is that? The cost is minimal, but let's assume that we do it for free, do you seriously think these people are going to go to the DMV and pick them up? What next? Oh no, we have to hand-deliver all of the IDs to everyone, door to door! Oh no, we have to fill out their forms because they're too lazy! Oh no, we have to do all the work and go vote for them too!

If they're too damn stupid or lazy to go get an ID, I don't want them voting.

Voting is a right, not a privlege. And its not about being too stupid or lazy to get an ID. Its about people being too poor or physically incapable of getting an ID. IMO, what should happen is if you make less than a certain amount of income you are given an ID for free, churches and other groups get the people to the DMV to get the ID, and then when its time to renew, you are automatically sent one in the mail. And since technology is getting better and better there shouldn't be anything preventing the government and non-profit orginizations setting up ways to do all the work to get an ID without having to be physically at the DMV.

As I noted early on, the only way you can do this is to make it free.

I'd love IDs just be free for everyone, but that would be a large burden on the state don't you think?
 
The problem with that is you're just lowering the bar once again to cater to the lowest common denominator. If the poor or elderly have no ID, whose fault is that? The cost is minimal, but let's assume that we do it for free, do you seriously think these people are going to go to the DMV and pick them up?

Make them available at the social security office also. But yes, if they drive they are eventually going to pick them up.
 
No, the only way you can do it is make people responsible and responsibility in America is a bad word today.

Even the irresponsible can vote.
 
Providing links from a partisan site can be useful and help make your point. I would prefer this over nothing but the referenced articles actually have to have facts to back up your position. Not just opinion.
I don't use them. I prefer to make the point myself. I use neutral news sources to site a case, especially if some are unfamiliar with it. As I said, it only proves that someone out there agrees with you which is something I think we all can concede, regardless of the opinion.
 
Yeah, so much of a Republican that he appeared with, and backed Obama....Nah....Sorry. He was an Arlen Spector Republican. And a disgrace.

j-mac

Arlen Spector was a moderate Republican for years. The party left him, before he left the party. He left specifically because of people like you, who pushed the party so far to the right that it didn't reflect his beliefs any more. For all the talk about a "true Republican" you've forgotten that the Republican party is supposed to be center-right. There should be room on the right for the extremists. For all the lip service given to Reagan by the TP, if he were a candidate, they'd dismiss him as a RINO.
 
If they're too damn stupid or lazy to go get an ID, I don't want them voting.

Well, frankly, if you have that attitude I don't want YOU voting ... but we all have a right to vote and we should not make it harder to exercise that right unless we have a damned good reason.
 
Voting is a right, not a privlege. And its not about being too stupid or lazy to get an ID. Its about people being too poor or physically incapable of getting an ID. IMO, what should happen is if you make less than a certain amount of income you are given an ID for free, churches and other groups get the people to the DMV to get the ID, and then when its time to renew, you are automatically sent one in the mail. And since technology is getting better and better there shouldn't be anything preventing the government and non-profit orginizations setting up ways to do all the work to get an ID without having to be physically at the DMV.

As I said, assuming that IDs were free, that removes any obstacle for people "too poor". If people were able to make requests through the mail, that would remove any obstacles for people "physically incapable". So it's not that hard to make it possible to get IDs if you want one. I'm sure that wouldn't stop the ACLU from making the same claim because there would be people out there who wouldn't even make the attempt to get an ID and thus, couldn't vote. Laziness is not an excuse.
 
I read two thirds of the article and saw nothing about what they are doing to suppress voting. I then started scanning. I'll refrain from reading any more of your links. If you want to make a point, quote the relevant parts.

Did you read Public Act Four passed by the Michigan Legislature on a straight party vote in 2011?

that is what the article was discussing.

You ask for evidence, then dismiss the evidence and tell me I have provided too much for you to read and want the short readers digest version. Please make up your mind.

Its all there for you - no matter if you want to dismiss it out of party loyalty or not. That does not change reality and the war on voting rights.
 
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