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ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

I'm still a little confused on how this is equivalent to Jim Crow laws.
 
Hare said:
You're using individual cases where certain seniors are inconvenienced to justify accusations of broad, sweeping voter suppression. For the vast majority of Americans, a voter ID should not be a problematic request.
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So if a few innocent people are inconvenienced and thrown in jail, that is justified because chances are that we got at least one real criminal? Is that that the attitude you have on things?

And you totally missed the point. ID's that were valid the last election have been invalidated in the next and you need a picture ID to get a voter ID... but to get the ID you need your birth certificate, but that you cant get because yes.. you need a valid picture ID! laws like that make you wonder what the hell the legislative was thinking. People are also being forced to pay for new voter ID cards and what not, despite it being free..

The Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law | Think Getting “Free” ID Is Easy? Think Again!

A long list for something that is supposed to be easy no? Poll tax!
 
PeteEU said:
So if a few innocent people are inconvenienced and thrown in jail, that is justified because chances are that we got at least one real criminal? Is that that the attitude you have on things?

The Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law | Think Getting “Free” ID Is Easy? Think Again!
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So if a few people are inconvenienced and had trouble getting ID, is that is justification to compromise democratic institutions through voter fraud? Is that that the attitude you have on things?
 
PeteEU said:
So if a few innocent people are inconvenienced and thrown in jail, that is justified because chances are that we got at least one real criminal? Is that that the attitude you have on things?

And you totally missed the point. ID's that were valid the last election have been invalidated in the next and you need a picture ID to get a voter ID... but to get the ID you need your birth certificate, but that you cant get because yes.. you need a valid picture ID!
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No you don't.
 
1Perry said:
Not that I have to provide anything of proof of that for it to be accepted by many.
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What type of "proof" are you looking for that is not around you on most days of the week? Are you taking issue with the idea that there has NOT been a growth in conservative circles of ideology which attempts to refute the idea that their is a Constitutional right to vote? That we need to impose new laws which could restrict voting for some people? That there have not been discussions right here and on other sites in which people on the right openly state that they are against certain people voting and we should connect the vote to things like payment of federal income taxes?
 
Bob Blaylock said:
1996. California 46th District congressional election.

Loretta Sanchez, a Democrat ran a campaign specifically courting illegal aliens. She narrowly defeated the Republican incumbent, Bob Dornan. The number of votes that were subsequently proven to have been illegally cast amounted to about 76% of the margin by which she defeated Dornan. It's impossible to know how many more illegal votes were unproven, but there's a very, very high probability that the final outcome of this election was different than it would have been if illegals had not voted.

Voter fraud does happen, and we have here at least one example in which it appears to have altered the outcome of an important election.
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Could you provide a link to the follow up convictions in this case please?

A Republican dominated panel in the House of Representatives investigated and while they found evidence that some people voted who should not have voted, they concluded that the result did not warrant overturning. They disagreed with your conclusion about the final outcome of the election. And the chair of that panel was a Republican.

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/04/u...-nine-term-congressman.html?ref=robertkdornan
 
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PeteEU said:
So if a few innocent people are inconvenienced and thrown in jail, that is justified because chances are that we got at least one real criminal? Is that that the attitude you have on things?

And you totally missed the point. ID's that were valid the last election have been invalidated in the next and you need a picture ID to get a voter ID... but to get the ID you need your birth certificate, but that you cant get because yes.. you need a valid picture ID! laws like that make you wonder what the hell the legislative was thinking. People are also being forced to pay for new voter ID cards and what not, despite it being free..

The Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law | Think Getting “Free” ID Is Easy? Think Again!

A long list for something that is supposed to be easy no? Poll tax!
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Are you insinuating that individuals will be thrown in jail for ignorance of the rules? They'll simply not be allowed to vote if they're not aware of the new requirements. Inconvenience to a select few, but not as severe as you would have others believe.
 
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taxigirl said:
ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law - chicagotribune.com





We have gone through so many years in the United States without Voter ID laws, and we now suddenly need them? Voter fraud is not something that is not common in the United States and this seems like an attempt to disenfranchise certain sets of voters. :usflag2:
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if the states are willing to provide free ID'S , or ID'S at steeply reduced price to those who need them, then i don't have a problem with asking for an ID to vote...without providing acess to an affordable/free ID, i can see how someone who is a legitimate citizen of this country could be denied their right to vote, and i can see how it could be construed as an attempt to disenfranchise certain voters.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
How much does it cost to get a copy of one's birth certificate?
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Mail requests ordered with priority handling ($45.00 per copy ordered) are currently processed within two (2) to four (4) weeks from when they are received. Submitting the application to the Vital Records Processing Center by overnight delivery is recommended. Completed requests will be returned by first class mail unless a prepaid return mailer for overnight delivery is provided with the request.
Mail requests ordered with regular handling ($30.00 per copy ordered) are currently processed within six (6) to eight (8) weeks from when they are received.
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Birth Certificates - New York State Department of Health

I used the mail request example because some (poor and elderly) do not have access to the internet for a variety of reasons. I use New York as an example because that is my birth state and I had to get a new BC. 45.00 may not seem like a lot to people who have never lived on a budget, but it is hard to understand if you have never been there. In addition to the above costs please see below for further requirements:
Identification Requirements - application must be submitted with copies of either A or B:

One (1) of the following forms of valid photo-ID:
Driver license
State issued non-driver photo-ID card
Passport
U.S. Military issued photo-ID

Two (2) of the following showing the applicant's name and address:
Utility or telephone bills
Letter from a government agency dated within the last six (6) months
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You need friggin' ID to get ID. Huh?

Getting these other items takes time and money as well.

Bob, I know you did not address the transportation issue but I would like to use this space to explain it as it was mentioned that anyone can get transportation.

If you live off a bus line, in a rural area, cannot ride the bus etc... there is no "voter transportation assistance." Wisconsin can't even get it right for medical transportation.

Please see the ridiculous requirements for medical transport:
Wisconsin Medical Assistance Transportation, UW Health, University of Wisconsin Hospital, Madison

In addition to all the hoops the program is being run by a questionable company:
LogistiCare's medical transport service generates more complaints - JSOnline

Now I am getting off topic, I just wanted to show how difficult it is for some people to get around as it was mentioned in this thread.
So how do we vote in Wisconsin if we can't get a ride or ID? We don't.
:sigh:
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Voting should take a little effort. The thought of some drunken bum or crack ho on welfare not qualifying to vote because they have no ID doesn't really bother me too much.
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That is kind of the point. They all have a right to vote too, regardless of their standing in society. Why should we discount their opinions?
 
Bob Blaylock said:
For this to make any sense, one has to presume that people who do not have valid ID are more likely to vote Democratic.

What else could we reasonably assume about those who don't have valid ID?
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That's the assumption at work on both sides. Republicans are pushing it because they assume that it'll suppress Democratic turn out, which'll give them a better chance at winning.

What's funny is all the people on both sides buying the rhetoric. "It'll stop voter fraud!" "It's racism!" It will have little effect whatsoever. Sawyer pointed out the 113 cases of fraud in Minnesota -- most of that was felons who were never removed from the voter rolls. If they had been forced to show ID, all that would have happened is that they'd have shown their ID, it would match the name and they'd vote -- same as what happened.

What you're advocating is that we need 50 new laws, and more government red tape, to not fix anything.
 
taxigirl said:
That is kind of the point. They all have a right to vote too, regardless of their standing in society. Why should we discount their opinions?
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and why wouldn't they be able to vote? If they can get a picture ID for free, what's stopping them from voting?

Now, in the case of dead people, that could be a problem. Should we disenfranchise dead people?
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Voting should take a little effort. The thought of some drunken bum or crack ho on welfare not qualifying to vote because they have no ID doesn't really bother me too much.
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And where in the Constitution do you obtain that standard from?
 
Dittohead not! said:
and why wouldn't they be able to vote? If they can get a picture ID for free, what's stopping them from voting?

Now, in the case of dead people, that could be a problem. Should we disenfranchise dead people?
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Did you even read this thread that discusses how difficult it is to get ID? or the discussion within this thread about who it disenfranchises?
 
haymarket said:
And where in the Constitution do you obtain that standard from?
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I never said deny them the vote, I merely expressed my own opinion. IMO if you are so screwed up you can't even gather enough wits too obtain ID I personally don't want you too vote. Not only that I assume you will vote Dem which brings up a related issue, Dem's wanting to give convicts the vote because most of them would vote Dem which speaks volumes.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I never said deny them the vote, I merely expressed my own opinion. IMO if you are so screwed up you can't even gather enough wits too obtain ID I personally don't want you too vote. Not only that I assume you will vote Dem which brings up a related issue, Dem's wanting to give convicts the vote because most of them would vote Dem which speaks volumes.
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You not wanting somebody to vote and you working to enact measures to increase the chances that that same person will not vote are two very different things.
 
taxigirl said:
ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law - chicagotribune.com





We have gone through so many years in the United States without Voter ID laws, and we now suddenly need them? Voter fraud is not something that is not common in the United States and this seems like an attempt to disenfranchise certain sets of voters. :usflag2:
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One person, one vote should be the standard. I should be able to trust that my vote is not canceled out from a fraudulent one by a group that wants to disenfranchise me. Hell, you have to show ID for nearly everything from buying cold medicine, to getting a pack of cigarettes, why should it not be the standard, and an easy one to meet btw, for the most important civic duty?


j-mac
 
haymarket said:
And where in the Constitution do you obtain that standard from?
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The law is not unconstitutional by any means if that's what you're implying; the constitution leaves responsibility to the states to deem what qualifications they felt were necessary to vote outside of the minimum age requirement and the amendments prohibiting race and gender discrimination.
 
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Hare said:
The law is not unconstitutional by any means if that's what you're implying; the constitution leaves responsibility to the states to deem what qualifications they felt were necessary outside of age, race, and gender.
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Never said it was. That is not my argument. Sawyer said this

Voting should take a little effort.
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I merely asked where in the Constitution that standard came from.
 
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sawyerloggingon said:
I never said deny them the vote, I merely expressed my own opinion. IMO if you are so screwed up you can't even gather enough wits too obtain ID I personally don't want you too vote. Not only that I assume you will vote Dem which brings up a related issue, Dem's wanting to give convicts the vote because most of them would vote Dem which speaks volumes.
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Sawyer-- you make a lot of assumptions. In Florida a few years ago the legislature and Gov. Charlie Crist (R) changed the rules and restored voting rights for former convicts.
 
taxigirl said:
Sawyer-- you make a lot of assumptions. In Florida a few years ago the legislature and Gov. Charlie Crist (R) changed the rules and restored voting rights for former convicts.
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Charlie Crist was no Republican, other than his designation....He was a progressive, and I believe a great example of what aided in the downfall of the Republican party.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Charlie Crist was no Republican, other than his designation....He was a progressive, and I believe a great example of what aided in the downfall of the Republican party.

j-mac
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He was not a tea party right wing Republican. But he was very much a Republican.
 
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