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ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

Khayembii Communique said:
It is a violation of one's constitutional rights and the Voting Rights Act to prohibit a citizen from voting.
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Please quote the specific constituional provision that states anyone has a blanket right to vote. I'll help you out here: you can't do it because it doesn't exist. All it says is that no one can be denied the right to vote based on certain characteristics. But that's it.
 
MaggieD said:
No...what are you afraid will happen if people are actually *gasp* required to show identification before voting?
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The Libbos won't be able to make poor folks and minorities fear the mean ol, rich, white Conservatives.

Libbos have a hero complex; don't know the clinical name, but it's like when a pyromaniac fireman starts a fire, so he can show up to put it out and look like the big hero.
 
Meathead said:
Maybe it's not pc, but people who do not have the where-with-all to get some sort of ID to a polling station probably shouldn't be voting anyway. I would make an exception for the house-bound senior and handicapped.
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Those persons probably aren't registered to vote, anyway.
 
In principal, ensuring that voting is honest and accurate is very important. And the theory that requiring voters to have IDs sounds like a good way to do that, in principal. Except that when actually implementing that, it just prevents legal voters from voting, and does little to stop fraudulent activity. ID requirements do not actually accomplish what proponents want them to do.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Many people, even if they do have an ID, don't have one that contains a current address. This is a bigger problem than you are trying to minimize it into.
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That's already illegal; not that it has jack to do with anything.
 
Paschendale said:
In principal, ensuring that voting is honest and accurate is very important. And the theory that requiring voters to have IDs sounds like a good way to do that, in principal. Except that when actually implementing that, it just prevents legal voters from voting, and does little to stop fraudulent activity. ID requirements do not actually accomplish what proponents want them to do.
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How does it stop legal voters from voting? Surely, if they can produce an ID to register, they can produce an ID to vote.

Other than Libbos taking advantage of the oppurtunity to call Conservatives racists, I'm not seeing the problem.
 
MKULTRABOY said:
The law curiously enough affects the poor exclusively. Class voter suppression. :shrug:

Next order of business please.
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Any proof of the law affecting the poor exclusively, or are you going to use individual cases to claim broad, sweeping "voter supression"?
 
apdst said:
How does it stop legal voters from voting? Surely, if they can produce an ID to register, they can produce an ID to vote.
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How does producing an ID prevent illegal voting? Is it that hard to get a fake ID? Not the last time I checked.

Seriously, we need a whole series of 50 new laws (10th Amendment -- elections are run by states) to stop less than 1% of the vote? That's what voter fraud right now amounts to - usually a fraction of a percent. Talk about government overreach, I'd say that 50 laws that don't fix a non-problem is exactly that.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Still not satisfied?

ST. PAUL, Minn., Oct. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Minnesota Majority today released a report on voter fraud convictions to date stemming from Minnesota's 2008 general election. The report finds that 113 individuals who voted illegally in the 2008 election have been convicted of the crime, "ineligible voter knowingly votes" under Minnesota Statute 201.014.
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So you know how many votes were cast in Minnesota in 2008? 113 is significantly less than 1% of that number. While I'm sure you probably belived that they all were cast for Democrats, nobody else who isn't a blind partisan hack believes that voting irregularities only occur on one side of the aisle.
 
Hare said:
Any proof of the law affecting the poor exclusively, or are you going to use individual cases to claim broad, sweeping "voter supression"?
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Broad sweeping voter suppression, the US has never needed these laws before. Voter suppression is nothing new. The voting system has innacuracies in the millions that have little to do with a sneaky illegal immigrant voting, the left doesn't need an illegal immigrant vote to win, let's not flatter ourselves. People bitch about having to sit at a DMV and Im certainly going to bitch about getting a voter ID if I have to. Coming from the side that sees government overreach as tyranny this is really charming.
 
BWG said:
Think of the logistics it would take to pull off any significant in-person voter fraud.
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Sure, but I think that if anybody can pull off large scale vote fraud, it's the Democratic and Republican parties.

So the logistics of pulling off significant fraud are already pretty difficult. Do you trust either party to tell you "We need this this law?"
 
MKULTRABOY said:
Broad sweeping voter suppression, the US has never needed these laws before. Voter suppression is nothing new. The voting system has innacuracies in the millions that have little to do with a sneaky illegal immigrant voting, the left doesn't need an illegal immigrant vote to win, let's not flatter ourselves. People bitch about having to sit at a DMV and Im certainly going to bitch about getting a voter ID if I have to. Coming from the side that sees government overreach as tyranny this is really charming.
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I believe the law is both uneccessary and a inconvenience to some, but I don't view it as voter supression or discrimnatory when everyone is being held to the same standard.
 
Hare said:
I believe the law is both uneccessary and a inconvenience to some, but I don't view it as voter supression or discrimnatory when everyone is being held to the same standard.
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If I had the standard of requiring you to go to a location to acquire a $20 dollar + ID card accessible by car only requiring documents that satisfy whatever lawmakers decide satisfies the law to whatever ends they may or may not have... possibly costing you more money... with documents possibly only in english :shrug: wtf do you think is going to happen? I've been watching the voter fraud suppression thing for a while, its a virtually non-existant problem in comparison to others in the voting system and some politicians are frothing to get it passed.
 
MKULTRABOY said:
If I had the standard of requiring you to go to a location to acquire a $20 dollar + ID card accessible by car only requiring documents that satisfy whatever lawmakers decide satisfies the law to whatever ends they may or may not have... possibly costing you more money... with documents possibly only in english :shrug: wtf do you think is going to happen? I've been watching the voter fraud suppression thing for a while, its a virtually non-existant problem in comparison to others in the voting system and some politicians are frothing to get it passed.
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maybe instead of endless fundraisers for Obamas re-election, maybe rich liberals can have a fundraiser or two to help cover the costs of getting poor liberals to the BMV to get a picture ID.
 
Meathead said:
Mods, I don't care if you zap me or flag me, but sorry Hazelmarket, you are a ditz. I've rarely seen a lamer argument.
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Your post 91 fits that to a tee. You simply cannot extrapolate as you suggest and come up with evidence. It does not work that way. You are alleging voter fraud. Such a crime is measured by convictions. You may not like that because it exposes the intellectual fraud of your position, but it still is the truth.
 
haymarket said:
Your post 91 fits that to a tee. You simply cannot extrapolate as you suggest and come up with evidence. It does not work that way. You are alleging voter fraud. Such a crime is measured by convictions. You may not like that because it exposes the intellectual fraud of your position, but it still is the truth.
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So, since no one is getting caught, that means no crime is being committed?
 
Grizzly Adams said:
Please quote the specific constituional provision that states anyone has a blanket right to vote. I'll help you out here: you can't do it because it doesn't exist. All it says is that no one can be denied the right to vote based on certain characteristics. But that's it.
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In how many places is the right to bear arms mentioned in the Constitution?
In how many places is freedom of speech mentioned in the Constitution?
In how many places is freedom of the press mentioned in the Constitution?
In how many places is the right to vote mentioned in the Constitution?

Most right wingers I have encountered cannot even properly regurgitate the extremist argument about "there is no right to vote". All they do is repeat what some radio shock jock said. Its really sad.
 
apdst said:
So, since no one is getting caught, that means no crime is being committed?
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Voter fraud is different than murder or arson where you have the evidence of a crime without a conviction. What evidence of a crime of voter fraud do you have without a conviction?
 
Fletch said:
maybe instead of endless fundraisers for Obamas re-election, maybe rich liberals can have a fundraiser or two to help cover the costs of getting poor liberals to the BMV to get a picture ID.
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Why incurr the costs in the first place.. this doesnt make sense... oh wait, yeah you're trolling.
 
haymarket said:
In how many places is the right to bear arms mentioned in the Constitution?
In how many places is freedom of speech mentioned in the Constitution?
In how many places is freedom of the press mentioned in the Constitution?
In how many places is the right to vote mentioned in the Constitution?

Most right wingers I have encountered cannot even properly regurgitate the extremist argument about "there is no right to vote". All they do is repeat what some radio shock jock said. Its really sad.
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Do you support the law that says a person has to have a photo ID to buy a gun?
 
rocket88 said:
How does producing an ID prevent illegal voting? Is it that hard to get a fake ID? Not the last time I checked.
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It's not supposed to prevent all illegal voting, it's supposed to make it a lot more difficult. If we insisted that IDs be 100% effective, we'd have done away with them altogether a long time ago.
 
Well, comparing this to Jim Crown is going to far. While it is extremely hard to get even a rough estimate of the voter fraud statistics.

Just because the crime is not widely committed does not mean their should be some actions to stop it.

I would suggest for states to allow multiple forms of I.D from birth certificates, driver licenses, bills and other articles of identification.
 
haymarket said:
Voter fraud is different than murder or arson where you have the evidence of a crime without a conviction. What evidence of a crime of voter fraud do you have without a conviction?
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The point is, if you are not required to prove you are who you say you are with a picture ID, it is impossible to prove whether or not fraud is occurring. If I show up at the polls and claim to be my brother and vote in his name, I have committed voter fraud, but no one will ever know. A picture ID is a way to insure that the honest voter is not being disenfranchised by the dishonest voter.
 
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