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Thread: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

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    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Any dishonest people in an election compromise the integrity of the election, regardless of the number. If we can't trust the integrity of our own voting system, what the hell can we trust?
    I don't trust it for other reason namely the fact that a computer glitch and people behind closed doors can decide an election. Not to mention the fact that my core doesn't matter since our voting system marginalizes any one not adhearing to the policy if the two major parties


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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    It appears that "your state" of South Carolina is the one with the history of cheating.
    Oh, my state in parenthesis, oh you're so clever...You're right, I don't own the state, just live in it...As for the preclearence provision, it is an over reach of the act, and should not be in there. Reasons for it being in there are no longer a problem in the south. Not to mention its possible Constitutional questions. But then again, I wouldn't expect a progressive to care a wit about the Constitution.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post

    @everyone
    I think everyone is making this more complicated than it needs be. We can argue all day about whether an ID is needed to prove your identity to prevent fraud, but regardless of what you believe on the subject, I wish we could all just get together and acknowledge that it's ridiculous to liken this to Jim Crow laws or state sponsored racism.

    If you see an ID requirement as "blacks can't vote", then maybe you should check out your own prejudices or do something yourself to help break down the racial barriers.
    I said right away that comparing it to Jim Crow laws was useless hyperbole. Saying that it somehow means "blacks can't vote" is as ridiculous as saying that it will "put an end to voter fraud." Those are just the labels the two parties put on it that some of the idiots around here believe.

    It's all based on the idea that it'll suppress Democratic turnout. I don't know if that's true or not, but both parties are working off of that assumption. Which is why Republicans are for it, and Democrats are against it. It's that simple. But appealing to "fairness" sounds better to the Republican base, and false appeals to race work with the Democratic base.


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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    @everyone
    I think everyone is making this more complicated than it needs be. We can argue all day about whether an ID is needed to prove your identity to prevent fraud, but regardless of what you believe on the subject, I wish we could all just get together and acknowledge that it's ridiculous to liken this to Jim Crow laws or state sponsored racism.

    If you see an ID requirement as "blacks can't vote", then maybe you should check out your own prejudices or do something yourself to help break down the racial barriers.
    I don't see this as racial per se but because of the economic facts of life in America it does affect minorities more than whites and there's no denying that. It's the poor and/or disabled that get screwed by this legislation because that's who gets hurt the most by requiring a) documentation that is not free that's required to receive a "free" ID card, b) having to take time off work since many public offices are not open evenings or weekends, and c) paying for special transportation to get from one office to the next to gather documentation, then present it at the appropriate place usually different than where the original documents are stored/distributed.

    While I'm not saying it's some government conspiracy to make money I would like to point out that almost all the documentation required to get these ID's cards are government issue. So, bottom line, if you have to pay money to the government to vote or register to vote than how is this any different than the poll taxes outlawed 50 years ago?




    Ed:
    Just wanted these for reference:
    http://www.kssos.org/forms/elections/voter_rights.pdf
    Applying for a New Kansas DMV Identification Card at DMV.org: The Unofficial DMV Guide
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 03-04-12 at 02:15 AM. Reason: moved unrelated ref to bottom
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I don't see this as racial per se but because of the economic facts of life in America it does affect minorities more than whites and there's no denying that.
    Mo, I'd say that is more a condemnation of demo policies that have kept these people in that station in life. And with your opposition, your continued commitment to keeping them there.

    It's the poor and/or disabled that get screwed by this legislation because that's who gets hurt the most by requiring a) documentation that is not free that's required to receive a "free" ID card, b) having to take time off work since many public offices are not open evenings or weekends, and c) paying for special transportation to get from one office to the next to gather documentation, then present it at the appropriate place usually different than where the original documents are stored/distributed.
    SC in their law had in there to overcome every hurdle you list here and are still being sued to block it from being implemented....Why?

    While I'm not saying it's some government conspiracy to make money I would like to point out that almost all the documentation required to get these ID's cards are government issue. So, bottom line, if you have to pay money to the government to vote or register to vote than how is this any different than the poll taxes outlawed 50 years ago?

    Simple fix, attach criteria to aid them getting the ID's free of charge. Oh wait....SC did that too....Hmmmm.

    j-mac
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I don't see this as racial per se but because of the economic facts of life in America it does affect minorities more than whites and there's no denying that. It's the poor and/or disabled that get screwed by this legislation because that's who gets hurt the most by requiring a) documentation that is not free that's required to receive a "free" ID card, b) having to take time off work since many public offices are not open evenings or weekends, and c) paying for special transportation to get from one office to the next to gather documentation, then present it at the appropriate place usually different than where the original documents are stored/distributed.

    While I'm not saying it's some government conspiracy to make money I would like to point out that almost all the documentation required to get these ID's cards are government issue. So, bottom line, if you have to pay money to the government to vote or register to vote than how is this any different than the poll taxes outlawed 50 years ago?




    Ed:
    Just wanted these for reference:
    http://www.kssos.org/forms/elections/voter_rights.pdf
    Applying for a New Kansas DMV Identification Card at DMV.org: The Unofficial DMV Guide
    I've suggested from the very beginning that the local DMV's set up booths for ID card creation near polling centers in poorer neighborhoods. I'm normally very against anything that'll cost the government, but considering how little effort it would really take for a few DMV workers to throw a few computers and the ID card machine into a van and to set up a booth in their local area, the cost would be almost nothing to the government. Let's face it, it doesn't actually cost the government $50 per ID card.

    As far as the person who earlier attacked this idea because the "poor can't get transportation to the voting stations", that sounds like a personal problem. The government isn't here to wipe your a** for you, you have to take some responsibility in your own life. I think it'd be very fair to offer free ID cards to poor families in order to facilitate voting.
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I've suggested from the very beginning that the local DMV's set up booths for ID card creation near polling centers in poorer neighborhoods. I'm normally very against anything that'll cost the government, but considering how little effort it would really take for a few DMV workers to throw a few computers and the ID card machine into a van and to set up a booth in their local area, the cost would be almost nothing to the government. Let's face it, it doesn't actually cost the government $50 per ID card.

    As far as the person who earlier attacked this idea because the "poor can't get transportation to the voting stations", that sounds like a personal problem. The government isn't here to wipe your a** for you, you have to take some responsibility in your own life. I think it'd be very fair to offer free ID cards to poor families in order to facilitate voting.

    Absolutely...outcries against this are phony, and meant to keep the flaws in the system in place to be exploited.


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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I think it'd be very fair to offer free ID cards to poor families in order to facilitate voting.
    These ID cards are not "free", and if voting genuinely matters anyone can make the effort, perhaps even with the help of friends or family, to get the card. Surely their must still be enough self determination around to do a simple deed like obtain an ID card.

    And the racist who made the comment that these ID laws are akin to Jim Crow laws, implying that Blacks would somehow be more greatly effected than Vietnamese, Mexicans, Poles or Australians, should be publicly admonished rather than quoted approvingly.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    These ID cards are not "free", and if voting genuinely matters anyone can make the effort, perhaps even with the help of friends or family, to get the card. Surely their must still be enough self determination around to do a simple deed like obtain an ID card.

    And the racist who made the comment that these ID laws are akin to Jim Crow laws, implying that Blacks would somehow be more greatly effected than Vietnamese, Mexicans, Poles or Australians, should be publicly admonished rather than quoted approvingly.

    I agree Grant that ID is relatively simple to obtain, even in the poorest of situations, however, if libs are going to hang their hat on the recipient class voter not having the money, or transportation to obtain these ID's, which BTW, if you don't have an ID life is that much harder, But if they can't get them because of their station in life, then the law that SC passed concerning ID should have NO basis for being blocked by Holder, and the lack of liberal response to me when I point this out tells me that the whole access thing is a false canard to begin with.

    We should be focusing on all of the former ACORN members in multiple states now convicted of intentional voter registration fraud, and realizing where there is smoke....etc.


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    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    SC in their law had in there to overcome every hurdle you list here and are still being sued to block it from being implemented....Why?
    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    It's the poor and/or disabled that get screwed by this legislation because that's who gets hurt the most by requiring a) documentation that is not free that's required to receive a "free" ID card, b) having to take time off work since many public offices are not open evenings or weekends, and c) paying for special transportation to get from one office to the next to gather documentation, then present it at the appropriate place usually different than where the original documents are stored/distributed.
    j-mac, since you said that SC overcame every hurdle listed by Mo please show me where in the text of the South Carolina Voter ID Law that it says it will resolve issues related to taking time off work and paying for special transportation.

    2011-2012 Bill 3003: Voter ID - www.scstatehouse.gov - South Carolina Legislature Online

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