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Thread: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, I actually agree with you. But we had a regulator shouting what would happen, and repubs trying like hell to address this very point, now after the fact all we hear from libs is how the repubs were in bed with the big nasty mean ol' bankers to ruin this country for greed, when in reality it was a vote buying scheme by libs, and progressives all along.


    j-mac
    I think we're in agreement mostly.

    And I didn't say anything about Republicans in bed with anyone. If you want to blame the mess on Democrats, be my guest. I'm sure that someone else will find something to blame on Republicans, and then the two parties will be even.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Of course there are some people that do not have access to birth certificates, etc., but I'm having a hard time believing 15 million that cannot get an ID. That seems high.
    Last edited by radcen; 03-01-12 at 11:50 PM.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Of course there are some people that do not have access to birth certificates, etc., but I'm having a hard time believing 15 million that cannot get an ID. That seems high.
    I'm not sure where that number came from either. It may include people who would have to pay to get a copy of their birth certificate or some other documentation to get the ID.
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    I did not notice my typo, but my intent was this: Voter fraud is not something that is common in the United States, note the absense of the second not.
    I will not argue who / what the intent is. GOP argues for less regulation and they push for this? Dems argue the intent is to disenfranshise people who typically vote for them, I don't know. What is wrong with the homor system? Everyone seem to think someone is "out to get them". Are there that many dishonest people, or is there just something other than fluoride in the water?
    Any dishonest people in an election compromise the integrity of the election, regardless of the number. If we can't trust the integrity of our own voting system, what the hell can we trust?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Any dishonest people in an election compromise the integrity of the election, regardless of the number. If we can't trust the integrity of our own voting system, what the hell can we trust?
    So because of potential untrustworthy people we deny others their vote? Is that like having a criminal justice system in which it is OK to convict innocent people in order to get the bad guys too? I am not saying everyone is honest, but voter fraud is very rare. Registration fraud which has been mostly committed by organizations, not individuals is more common, and because we know that the system seems to have worked out some kinks to identify registration fraud.

    Voting fraud is different. If you are going to take someone else's vote as your own you have to make some effort and be convinced that others will be doing the same or voting enough for your candidate as well. If you are dishonest and want to become a criminal then shame on you. it is human nature that these things will happen. If someone want to commit voter fraud they will do it with voter ID laws as well.

    We need to work on trusting the people who count the votes and the people we are voting for.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didn’t have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, I’m allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and I’ve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I don’t, before you know it, you won’t let me say nothing at all"
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I'm not sure where that number came from either. It may include people who would have to pay to get a copy of their birth certificate or some other documentation to get the ID.

    Some things I found...

    Citizens Without Proof

    Statement for Congressional Forum: “Excluded from Democracy”

    According to these reports it does include those numbers.

    This is not aimed at you Mo...

    We have to remember that there are a lot of people without transportation, money, housing etc... I certainly know that there are lot of people out there with less than me and I need to juggle things around to make it work. Some people in this thread have spoken as if there is not a lot of poverty or that people who are impoverished don't deserve a vote because they can't figure out how to get ID etc...

    There are people in this country that have homes without running water, what does that say? Yeah, yeah, yeah call me a bleeding heart or whatever you want. All that matters is that it is true and they are just as much a citizen as any of you who want to deny them a vote.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didn’t have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, I’m allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and I’ve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I don’t, before you know it, you won’t let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    “Reading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.”
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    So because of potential untrustworthy people we deny others their vote? Is that like having a criminal justice system in which it is OK to convict innocent people in order to get the bad guys too? I am not saying everyone is honest, but voter fraud is very rare. Registration fraud which has been mostly committed by organizations, not individuals is more common, and because we know that the system seems to have worked out some kinks to identify registration fraud.

    Voting fraud is different. If you are going to take someone else's vote as your own you have to make some effort and be convinced that others will be doing the same or voting enough for your candidate as well. If you are dishonest and want to become a criminal then shame on you. it is human nature that these things will happen. If someone want to commit voter fraud they will do it with voter ID laws as well.

    We need to work on trusting the people who count the votes and the people we are voting for.
    O_o I like how you simultaneously ignore what I previously wrote, and take the debate to an extreme. If you had read, I said I am not terribly against the idea that the poor on a voluntary basis could come and be issued a photo ID. It'd probably even be convenient to have the DMV set up a booth near major election centers for those who can't afford an ID.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    O_o I like how you simultaneously ignore what I previously wrote, and take the debate to an extreme. If you had read, I said I am not terribly against the idea that the poor on a voluntary basis could come and be issued a photo ID. It'd probably even be convenient to have the DMV set up a booth near major election centers for those who can't afford an ID.
    How do I know you're not an untrustworthy voter? No, sorry, that is ridiculous.

    That is a good idea to have the DMV set up a booth at polling centers, but how would we pay for it? and a potential problem is that a lot of folks who are impoverished live in smaller rural areas where it would not be feasible to put a DMV satellite office.

    Now here's a kicker, I'm not saying there are millions, but what about those who already do not trust the government etc... and don't want ID because it probably has a tracking chip in it that also records their fingerprints and sends them to the FBI?

    Just some 3:30am humor.
    Time to go watch some XFiles.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didn’t have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, I’m allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and I’ve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I don’t, before you know it, you won’t let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    “Reading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.”
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That statement is based on... what again? Wasn't it the sale of creative (subprime) mortgages that punched a hole in the housing bubble to start with?

    Wasn't government regulation needed to stop the practice of bundling subprime mortgages and selling them as viable assets?
    There were plenty of regulations but perhaps they were the wrong regulations. When the government became involved in deciding who should get mortgages, despite their economic status, perhaps that was a regulation too far.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post

    Some things I found...

    Citizens Without Proof

    Statement for Congressional Forum: “Excluded from Democracy”

    According to these reports it does include those numbers.

    This is not aimed at you Mo...
    Understood - thanks for providing the info!

    I guess I really am sexist to some extent, the maiden/married name thing never crossed my mind though I now remember my daughter complaining about changing all her stuff over when she got married.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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