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Thread: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I don't think that is a widespread perception at all. It's a perception that Republicans are trying to spread in order to pass these laws that would suppress Democratic turnout.
    It isn't Republicans pushing the idea that electronic voting is rigged.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    It isn't Republicans pushing the idea that electronic voting is rigged.
    I'm not sure what that has to do with the subject at hand other than both pertain to voting.

    There were justified concerns about electronic voting when it was first introduced because testing "in the wild" hadn't been done in the States. Once that was accomplished I don't think there were many objections. Government (elected officials anyway) is often too ignorant to be allowed to make decisions when it comes to technology. I think SOPA taught us that - or should have. I wouldn't want a politician writing the engineering specs for my car, either.
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I'm not sure what that has to do with the subject at hand other than both pertain to voting.
    Timeline:

    It was noted that maintaining the perception that voting is secure is important.

    It was then said that the perception was only being clouded by unfounded claims by the Republicans.

    I note that it wasn't the only reason.

    There were justified concerns about electronic voting when it was first introduced because testing "in the wild" hadn't been done in the States. Once that was accomplished I don't think there were many objections. Government (elected officials anyway) is often too ignorant to be allowed to make decisions when it comes to technology. I think SOPA taught us that - or should have. I wouldn't want a politician writing the engineering specs for my car, either.
    Sure, we just can't trust them newfangled voting machines.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Sure, we just can't trust them newfangled voting machines.
    I'm far, far away from being anti-tech. At one time I had ten active computers in my house - more than most people have owned - and I've got three running right now. That BS is wasted here.

    But no one should trust a machine unless it's been well tested - unless they just don't care if it works right or not. And it's not like we had to use machines or not vote. What the hell was the big rush?

    Ed:
    And anyone who had issues with the on-site scanners just didn't know the history of those machines very well. On-site scanners didn't work any different than the older, centralized scanners did. The tech was well-tested.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-27-12 at 04:06 PM.
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Again, this is perfectly obvious. It places an additional burden on voters that wasn't there before. Statistically this has been shown to reduce turnout by around 2%. In the aggregate that turns out to be millions of people.
    That "burden" is on everybody, not just your fellow Democrats? Again, what's the problem?

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I'm far, far away from being anti-tech. At one time I had ten active computers in my house - more than most people have owned - and I've got three running right now. That BS is wasted here.

    But no one should trust a machine unless it's been well tested - unless they just don't care if it works right or not. And it's not like we had to use machines or not vote. What the hell was the big rush?

    Ed:
    And anyone who had issues with the on-site scanners just didn't know the history of those machines very well. On-site scanners didn't work any different than the older, centralized scanners did. The tech was well-tested.
    Thanks. . . . . .

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    That's all fine and true, but if you want to do something about that 1% or less of votes that are the result of voter fraud, then do something about that. This regulation doesn't fix that.

    As I've said, I find it hard to believe that Conservatives are advocating that we need 50 different regulations (one for each state) that don't fix such a small problem. If the government tried to do this to a corporation, you'd be all up in arms about "killing jobs," but when it comes to regulating individuals, you guys are all over that.
    This shouldn't be a Conservative position, a Liberal position, a Republican position or a Democrat position. It should be an American position that only those who are honestly and legally entitled to vote should be allowed to do so.

    It's a matter of pride in the system to keep it legal and honest as well as respect for those who fought so hard to secure a fair vote for all people. To make the claim that it isn't a big problem or is too difficult to initiate is just silly. Certainly Americans have overcome greater obstacles than coming up with a system of who is legally allowed to vote. Or has that become too much of a challenge now as well?

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This shouldn't be a Conservative position, a Liberal position, a Republican position or a Democrat position. It should be an American position that only those who are honestly and legally entitled to vote should be allowed to do so.

    It's a matter of pride in the system to keep it legal and honest as well as respect for those who fought so hard to secure a fair vote for all people. To make the claim that it isn't a big problem or is too difficult to initiate is just silly. Certainly Americans have overcome greater obstacles than coming up with a system of who is legally allowed to vote. Or has that become too much of a challenge now as well?
    There are plenty of ways we can do that - it's just a matter of how well do you want it done and how much do you want to spend doing it. We could require fingerprints, retinal scans, and passwords but it would be expensive as hell to implement. Pretty damn hard to cheat, though.


    Ed:
    Still doesn't solve the absentee issue. Maybe require a visit to City Hall or wherever - just allow 2-3 months in advance?
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-27-12 at 04:29 PM.
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    If identity is so easy to fake that it is no longer worthwhile to bother with, why have ID for driver's licenses, libraries, passports, prescriptions and a myriad of other areas?

    Perhaps the idea is not to drop ID's altogether but to get them to be more effective, and with greater penalties for faking them.
    Voting is a right, the rest of the things you mention that you need ID for are privileges which can have stipulations.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law - chicagotribune.com

    We have gone through so many years in the United States without Voter ID laws, and we now suddenly need them? Voter fraud is not something that is not common in the United States and this seems like an attempt to disenfranchise certain sets of voters.

    Personally, I see nothing wrong with providing personal ID at a polling station

    BUT

    considering the political affiliations of those groups currently promoting Voter ID laws, I can also suspect that there could be more to their agenda than simply trying to prevent voter fraud!
    Last edited by jgarden47; 02-27-12 at 04:31 PM.

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