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Thread: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Really? No problem? Then how come, year after year, in one state or another, a bunch of dead people usually show up to vote?
    Please support your claim with facts. If you can back up your claim you can make some bucks courtesy of the ACLU! ACLU Offering Reward for Evidence of Voter Impersonation - NYTimes.com

    In fact, while these sorts of *claims* are often made, they almost never turn out to be true. And in the vanishingly small number of cases where it does turn out to be true, it is almost always the result of poll worker error or mischief, and almost never the result of voter impersonation. In other words, voter ID laws would do nothing to diminish what is already a virtually nonexistent problem. But they would keep millions of people from voting if done on a large scale.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    If it ensured that, it would be great. Unfortunately, it won't. Ever hear of a "fake ID?" Maybe you had one in college so you could buy booze. Not that hard to get. By a longshot.
    If identity is so easy to fake that it is no longer worthwhile to bother with, why have ID for driver's licenses, libraries, passports, prescriptions and a myriad of other areas?

    Perhaps the idea is not to drop ID's altogether but to get them to be more effective, and with greater penalties for faking them.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Again, this is perfectly obvious. It places an additional burden on voters that wasn't there before. Statistically this has been shown to reduce turnout by around 2%. In the aggregate that turns out to be millions of people.
    So what?

    If people are too stupid or incompetent do get the ID necessary to vote perhaps its best that they stay away from a voting booth.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So what?

    If people are too stupid or incompetent do get the ID necessary to vote perhaps its best that they stay away from a voting booth.
    And perhaps if people are too insenstive to the difficulties that the elderl and minorities face, THEY should stay away from the voting booth? Fortunately for you, you have a fundamental constitutional right to vote, just as they do.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Please support your claim with facts. If you can back up your claim you can make some bucks courtesy of the ACLU! ACLU Offering Reward for Evidence of Voter Impersonation - NYTimes.com

    In fact, while these sorts of *claims* are often made, they almost never turn out to be true. And in the vanishingly small number of cases where it does turn out to be true, it is almost always the result of poll worker error or mischief, and almost never the result of voter impersonation. In other words, voter ID laws would do nothing to diminish what is already a virtually nonexistent problem. But they would keep millions of people from voting if done on a large scale.
    Actually, more often than not it is an elderly spouse voting their deceased loved one's absentee ballot because they 'know' how they would have voted. This 'massive organized voter fraud' BS that goes around every election cycle is a gigantic canard, generally started by those who's candidates or political party lost the election.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    And perhaps if people are too insenstive to the difficulties that the elderl and minorities face, THEY should stay away from the voting booth? Fortunately for you, you have a fundamental constitutional right to vote, just as they do.
    Seems to me the solution is to make it easier for elderly and minorities to procure a photo ID, then...

    I have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms...but I sure as **** can't buy a gun without a photo ID, can it?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It wouldn't, of course. It would only suppress the voting of people who don't have ID and who don't make the effort, however small of an effort it takes, to get one. Most of those people don't bother to go to the polls anyway.
    I think that's a dangerous attitude to have - especially about something as essential as voting. We've been through the whole poll tax thing in this country already and agreed it should be illegal - and was made illegal by the 24th Amendment. If states want to issue free voter ID cards of whatever nature then I have no problem with requiring voters to present them at the polls. I also think that, in special cases, States should allow some exceptions in the documentation required for obtaining the cards. (Some old people would have a real problem providing even a birth certificate.) If these cards cost almost nothing as many on here claim then the States shouldn't have a problem issuing them without charge.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Actually, more often than not it is an elderly spouse voting their deceased loved one's absentee ballot because they 'know' how they would have voted. This 'massive organized voter fraud' BS that goes around every election cycle is a gigantic canard, generally started by those who's candidates or political party lost the election.
    Actually, requiring a photo ID won't stop this from happening. What are we going to do, send them out Special D and insist the postman obtain photo ID from them for delivery???
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-27-12 at 01:14 PM.
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Seems to me the solution is to make it easier for elderly and minorities to procure a photo ID, then...

    I have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms...but I sure as **** can't buy a gun without a photo ID, can it?
    The difference is that there is a demonstrable problem with criminals buying guns, but no demonstrable problem with people impersonating voters.

    If the states can implement these laws without suppressing voter participation then more power to them.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So what?

    If people are too stupid or incompetent do get the ID necessary to vote perhaps its best that they stay away from a voting booth.
    Why is it nessessary? If it wasn't necessary before.... are you intelligent enough to explain why they need to place an extra burden on the poor and disenfranchised?

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I think that's a dangerous attitude to have - especially about something as essential as voting. We've been through the whole poll tax thing in this country already and agreed it should be illegal - and was made illegal by the 24th Amendment. If states want to issue free voter ID cards of whatever nature then I have no problem with requiring voters to present them at the polls. I also think that, in special cases, States should allow some exceptions in the documentation required for obtaining the cards. (Some old people would have a real problem providing even a birth certificate.) If these cards cost almost nothing as many on here claim then the States shouldn't have a problem issuing them without charge.
    I think we're pretty close to the same page, as I've consistently said that ID cards should be provided free to those few who don't have them already. To do otherwise would be a violation of the 24th. amendment, as has already been pointed out.

    As for birth certificates, that can be overcome. My dad was born at home in 1918, yet he had a driver's license with photo ID, no problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Actually, requiring a photo ID won't stop this from happening. What are we going to do, send them out Special D and insist the postman obtain photo ID from them for delivery???
    I don't have an answer for that one. I'll let Wiggen figure it out.
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