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Thread: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

  1. #301
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In how many places is the right to bear arms mentioned in the Constitution?
    In how many places is freedom of speech mentioned in the Constitution?
    In how many places is freedom of the press mentioned in the Constitution?
    In how many places is the right to vote mentioned in the Constitution?

    Most right wingers I have encountered cannot even properly regurgitate the extremist argument about "there is no right to vote". All they do is repeat what some radio shock jock said. Its really sad.
    So... does this mean you can't cite the specific constitutional provision that guarantees a blanket right to vote like I asked? Perhaps because (like I said already) it simply doesn't exist?

    You can prattle on all you want about "extremist argument[s]" but at the end of the day, not only is there no provision in the Constitution guaranteeing a blanket right to vote, but there is a provision that specifically spells out the consequences for a state's representation if it decides to limit the franchise. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. If the Constitution says the states will suffer a loss of representatives in the House if they limit voting, how is that anything but an admission that the states can do exactly that if they are willing to accept the consequences?

    You see? Nothing extreme about it. It's all about reading.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    In order to justify your belief you use a quote from Thomas Clough, a man who said Kwanzaa is "the black anti-Christmas" and "historyís most pathetic holiday"?

    I don't believe that all convicts are "proven enemies of our society".
    You never answered these questions.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Fine, those who are not recidivous scum, then by all means when they complete their debt to society and demonstrate that they are now not anti social predators, then restore their right.

    The very definition of 'convicted' is to be deemed guilty by a panel of ones peers. And constitutionally in this country you then give up your right until you have paid your debt to society.

    No system is perfect, but ours is the best.

    You either believe in the rule of law, or you don't....

    I don't believe that a murderer, pedophile, or rapist deserves any rights.

    You shouldn't use things like the word of God that you hold no belief in. That is a hack move.

    j-mac
    You never addressed my questions / answers in posts 215, 221, 222. Could you please explain your assertions?

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    You raise a very good point. I was trying to think of how to make this point myself, and not coming up with a very good way to express it.

    I think there is a problem with imposing any burdenówith requiring any person to jump through any hoopsóin order to exercise a right. On this principle, any person who is entitled to vote, ought to be able to do so without bearing any additional burden of proving that he is entitled to that right.

    On the other hand, the danger of voting fraud is very real; and if it is allowed to happen unchecked, then it undermines the right of valid voters to have their votes properly counted.

    It seems to me that a valid voter having his vote diluted because of fraudulent votes cast by those who are not entitled to do so, is a greater violation of the right to vote than would be any reasonable requirement for a voter to provide identification.
    Then shouldn't you also be against black box voting? Watch the documentry Hacking Democracy if you want to know where to direct your anger. Also Black Box Voting - America's Elections Watchdog Group
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Great! Then you have no objection to identity cards to ensure that no one will vote who is ineligible.

    Is that correct?
    If it ensured that, it would be great. Unfortunately, it won't. Ever hear of a "fake ID?" Maybe you had one in college so you could buy booze. Not that hard to get. By a longshot.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams View Post
    So... does this mean you can't cite the specific constitutional provision that guarantees a blanket right to vote like I asked? Perhaps because (like I said already) it simply doesn't exist?

    You can prattle on all you want about "extremist argument[s]" but at the end of the day, not only is there no provision in the Constitution guaranteeing a blanket right to vote, but there is a provision that specifically spells out the consequences for a state's representation if it decides to limit the franchise. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. If the Constitution says the states will suffer a loss of representatives in the House if they limit voting, how is that anything but an admission that the states can do exactly that if they are willing to accept the consequences?

    You see? Nothing extreme about it. It's all about reading.
    15th Amendment
    Section 1
    The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race
    color or previous condition of servitude.
    Section 2
    The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

    19th Amendment
    The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

    26th Amendment
    Section 1
    The right of citizens of the United States who are eighteen years of age or older to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
    Section 2
    The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Then shouldn't you also be against black box voting? Watch the documentry Hacking Democracy if you want to know where to direct your anger. Also Black Box Voting - America's Elections Watchdog Group
    Are your speaking of the way in which votes are counted" That is hard to address since there are so many ways and there is no one standard.
    Absentee ballot
    Chad
    DRE voting machine
    Electronic voting
    Optical scan voting system
    Provisional ballot
    Voting machine
    Voter Verified Paper Audit Trail
    Vote counting system

    I prefer paper ballots of some sort so they can be verified (this includes optical scan voting) I am very weary of computerized voting as there are so many things that can go wrong accidentally or purposefully.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  8. #308
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Are your speaking of the way in which votes are counted" That is hard to address since there are so many ways and there is no one standard.
    Absentee ballot
    Chad
    DRE voting machine
    Electronic voting
    Optical scan voting system
    Provisional ballot
    Voting machine
    Voter Verified Paper Audit Trail
    Vote counting system

    I prefer paper ballots of some sort so they can be verified (this includes optical scan voting) I am very weary of computerized voting as there are so many things that can go wrong accidentally or purposefully.
    I remember after the Gore Bush thing libs were calling for computerized voting. Thom Hartman in particular saying how we were so behind Europe where they used this method. I agree with you on this though, "keep it simple stupid" , the good old KISS theory.

  9. #309
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    All of these can be enforced with a voter ID law.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    15th Amendment
    Section 1
    The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race
    color or previous condition of servitude.
    Section 2
    The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

    19th Amendment
    The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

    26th Amendment
    Section 1
    The right of citizens of the United States who are eighteen years of age or older to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
    Section 2
    The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

  10. #310
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    15th Amendment
    Section 1
    The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race
    color or previous condition of servitude.
    Section 2
    The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

    19th Amendment
    The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

    26th Amendment
    Section 1
    The right of citizens of the United States who are eighteen years of age or older to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
    Section 2
    The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
    Doesn't say anything in there about an ID. Does it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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