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Thread: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If there really is no voter fraud, and if one of the major parties wants to claim that a failure of theirs to be elected is due to voter fraud, wouldn't it be in their interest to keep the perception of fraud out there? Why give up a built in excuse?

    My team would have won, but... the refs were biased, the other guys had home field advantage, our coach wasn't feeling well... whatever. If a team needs an excuse, then it had better get its act together, or see to it that it still has an excuse that fans will buy.
    That's why they proposed ID requirements. It wouldn't actually solve anything.

    $20 says that a few states will pass this, then Democrats will win an election, and some hack like O'Keefe or Breitbart will release a video showing how easy it is to get a fake ID.


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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There's massive food stamp fraud going on too, you know. I'm sure it's not too hard to steal Costco info and put your own picture on a fake card if you really wanted to. It's not like there's any biometric data on the card.
    And this is more reason to invalidate these voter ID laws. Anyone who is determined enough to commit the serious federal crime of voter fraud would certainly be determined enough to obtain a fake ID. Highschool students seem to manage it on a regular basis.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I think it's part and parcel of the ACLU's case. If there was good evidence that voter impersonation was a serious issue I don't think anyone would object to these laws. But voting is a fundamental right and therefore any law that infringes on it must meet the strict scrutiny standard. Under strict scruting, the government must have a compelling interest in the law in question, meaning that it's necessary or crucial. I don't know how they can make that case when there is little or no evidence that voter impersonation is a real problem.
    I haven't seen the arguement that has shown it's a real problem nor that photo I.D.'s would suppress voting. One can make a legitimate arguement for pre-emptive rules to head off any problems but I also think the bar is set higher with things like voting when it comes to new requirements.

    I do think we do a lousy job addressing the problem in the cases where it does turn up though. I would ban anyone who gets convicted of voter fraud, intimidation, etc from ever being able to vote again.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    From time to time in the past, some proposed that people carry some sort of national identity card. Some even speculated that a computer chip could be implanted into flesh identifying them forever. The aid to law enforcement would be great indeed. But many opposed such ideas claiming that it was unnecessary and an invasion of rights. Many on the right and left joined in this with many in the middle.

    Then the Census revealed our future in two or three decades. We looked into the future and discovered that white people would no longer be the majority. White voters would no longer be the majority. The party which depends on the white vote for its survival - the Republican Party - stands to be the big loser in this unless they modify their positions to appeal to various races and ethnic groups. Sadly for them, this would mean moderation at the very time they swing further and further to the right as personified by the tea party faction.

    So how does the GOP survive to win elections in the future if it will not modify, insists on staying to the far right, and still wants to be the white conservatives party? Simple. Disqualify lots of those voters who you see as The Other. Change your position on immigration. Change your position on voting rights. Change your position on anything that will allow you to restrict the franchise to avoid your future doom that the demographics predict.

    So we get things like Michigan's new Public Act Four taking away the right to vote for local government and imposing dictators over municipalities. And once people get used to that - who knows? The sky is the limit. And we get things like allowing no path to citizenship for people who have been here for decades even though Ronald Reagan supported such efforts in decades past. Of course, that was before the white as minority demographic projections. And we get things like demanding photo ID which very likely will decrease the anti-GOP voters and help them stay competitive or in the majority in decades to come.

    And in the meantime, we are suppose to not look at this wider and larger imperative and motivational fact. We are suppose to dwell on the nuances and details of if ID's are free or not, or if they have to be one official ID or not, or if they are Constitutional or not.

    The frog is half boiled if we do that instead of looking at what is motivating and propelling these attacks on voting rights at this time in American history.
    Last edited by haymarket; 02-26-12 at 05:38 PM.
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    From time to time in the past, some proposed that people carry some sort of national identity card. Some even speculated that a computer chip could be implanted into flesh identifying them forever. The aid to law enforcement would be great indeed. But many opposed such ideas claiming that it was unnecessary and an invasion of rights. Many on the right and left joined in this with many in the middle.

    Then the Census revealed our future in two or three decades. We looked into the future and discovered that white people would no longer be the majority. White voters would no longer be the majority. The party which depends on the white vote for its survival - the Republican Party - stands to be the big loser in this unless they modify their positions to appeal to various races and ethnic groups. Sadly for them, this would mean moderation at the very time they swing further and further to the right as personified by the tea party faction.

    So how does the GOP survive to win elections in the future if it will not modify, insists on staying to the far right, and still wants to be the white conservatives party? Simple. Disqualify lots of those voters who you see as The Other. Change your position on immigration. Change your position on voting rights. Change your position on anything that will allow you to restrict the franchise to avoid your future doom that the demographics predict.

    So we get things like Michigan's new Public Act Four taking away the right to vote for local government and imposing dictators over municipalities. And once people get used to that - who knows? The sky is the limit. And we get things like allowing no path to citizenship for people who have been here for decades even though Ronald Reagan supported such efforts in decades past. Of course, that was before the white as minority demographic projections. And we get things like demanding photo ID which very likely will decrease the anti-GOP voters and help them stay competitive or in the majority in decades to come.

    And in the meantime, we are suppose to not look at this wider and larger imperative and motivational fact. We are suppose to dwell on the nuances and details of if ID's are free or not, or if they have to be one official ID or not, or if they are Constitutional or not.

    The frog is half boiled if we do that instead of looking at what is motivating and propelling these attacks on voting rights at this time in American history.

    Detroit's net worth was just auditted to be negative $29 million.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post

    So how does the GOP survive to win elections in the future if it will not modify, insists on staying to the far right, and still wants to be the white conservatives party? Simple. Disqualify lots of those voters who you see as The Other.
    Would "The Other" be dead people, voters who aren't satisfied with voting just one time, or those who are legally not allowed to vote?

    Are these the people the Democrats depend upon? Seems so, judging by their protests.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by CedarBear View Post
    Detroit's net worth was just auditted to be negative $29 million.
    What does that have to do with the GOP effort to suppress voting rights?
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Would "The Other" be dead people, voters who aren't satisfied with voting just one time, or those who are legally not allowed to vote?

    Are these the people the Democrats depend upon? Seems so, judging by their protests.
    That is absurd. I see nobody here or elsewhere who defends anyone who should not vote. Perhaps you can cite that for us please?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That is absurd. I see nobody here or elsewhere who defends anyone who should not vote. Perhaps you can cite that for us please?
    Great! Then you have no objection to identity cards to ensure that no one will vote who is ineligible.

    Is that correct?

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What does that have to do with the GOP effort to suppress voting rights?
    Who is trying to suppress anyone's voting rights? Don't you think something as serious as an election should be demonstrated as being
    honest?

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