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Thread: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    In other words, you've got nothing and you're shifting the burden of proof. No surprise there.
    No, the burden of proof is where it's always been -- on the party seeking to implement new government regulation. In this case that would be you.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    J, you have got to be kidding me lol. First of all, Lenin doesn't represent all socialists.

    Ok, if you say so. But if I am not mistaken are not Lenin, and Marx considered the fathers of socialism/communism? We can look around in these types of socialist/communist societies and plainly see that religion is discouraged, and sometimes forcibly stamped out.

    Secondly, yes, you can be socialist and believe certain things in the Bible.
    Believe "certain" things? Or Use certain things to stifle an argument as taxigirl attempted with me?

    Third, I thought all those liberation theologists were Marxists too?
    BLT is absolutely about a political end toward Marx. All one has to do is listen to the racist Cone for any amount of time to hear it.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I'm afraid that the burden is on the party seeking to implement a new regulation to establish that there is some rational basis to support it. So as soon as you have some actual data establishing that voter impersonation is a real problem, let us know.
    If there really is no voter fraud, and if one of the major parties wants to claim that a failure of theirs to be elected is due to voter fraud, wouldn't it be in their interest to keep the perception of fraud out there? Why give up a built in excuse?

    My team would have won, but... the refs were biased, the other guys had home field advantage, our coach wasn't feeling well... whatever. If a team needs an excuse, then it had better get its act together, or see to it that it still has an excuse that fans will buy.
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, the burden of proof is where it's always been -- on the party seeking to implement new government regulation. In this case that would be you.
    The only argument against it is an unsupported claim that anyone would be disenfranchised. Since we already have laws on the books, and have essentially since the nation started, that only citizens are able to vote, requiring that citizens produce legal identification proving they are, in actuality, citizens ought not be a problem. After all, they should have such things already. The only reason to claim it shouldn't be necessary is to allow those who are not citizens, those who do not have such papers, to vote.

    Stop waving your arms around like you've got a clue.
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I'm afraid that the burden is on the party seeking to implement a new regulation to establish that there is some rational basis to support it. So as soon as you have some actual data establishing that voter impersonation is a real problem, let us know.
    See now, I can buy this arguement also. Too bad the ACLU didn't use it.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    See now, I can buy this arguement also. Too bad the ACLU didn't use it.
    The Supreme Court already ruled, in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court (2004) 542 U.S. 177, that states can make laws which make it a crime for a person to refuse to produce legal identification if asked to do so by a law enforcement officer. Of course, states don't have to, but they are entirely within their Constitutional rights to do so if they so choose. I would therefore presume that the federal government could, by the same rights, demand that anyone voting in a national election, be required to produce legal identification demonstrating they have the legal right to vote in said election. States could make that determination separately for state and local elections.

    But of course, I don't see anyone actually complaining about their own rights being affected by this, only the ACLU acting on it's own. Why? Because the people who have no IDs and would be affected do not, probably almost universally, vote in the first place and wouldn't care.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Because identity theft has been completely done away with, right?
    I think they'd do much better than what we have now.

    Costco has swipe cards with photoes, what's so problematic?

    Food stamps are swipe cards. I bet it could be done.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The Supreme Court already ruled, in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court (2004) 542 U.S. 177, that states can make laws which make it a crime for a person to refuse to produce legal identification if asked to do so by a law enforcement officer. Of course, states don't have to, but they are entirely within their Constitutional rights to do so if they so choose. I would therefore presume that the federal government could, by the same rights, demand that anyone voting in a national election, be required to produce legal identification demonstrating they have the legal right to vote in said election. States could make that determination separately for state and local elections.
    Yes, legally they can. As long as there is no cost involved. But that isn't the arguement. What was said was that it was up to those who enact such a law to make the point that they are needed. I'm not saying that they could or couldn't but I would agree with the basic point.

    But of course, I don't see anyone actually complaining about their own rights being affected by this, only the ACLU acting on it's own. Why? Because the people who have no IDs and would be affected do not, probably almost universally, vote in the first place and wouldn't care.
    I noted that the ACLU's reasoning was bogus.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    See now, I can buy this arguement also. Too bad the ACLU didn't use it.
    I think it's part and parcel of the ACLU's case. If there was good evidence that voter impersonation was a serious issue I don't think anyone would object to these laws. But voting is a fundamental right and therefore any law that infringes on it must meet the strict scrutiny standard. Under strict scruting, the government must have a compelling interest in the law in question, meaning that it's necessary or crucial. I don't know how they can make that case when there is little or no evidence that voter impersonation is a real problem.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by CedarBear View Post
    I think they'd do much better than what we have now.

    Costco has swipe cards with photoes, what's so problematic?

    Food stamps are swipe cards. I bet it could be done.
    There's massive food stamp fraud going on too, you know. I'm sure it's not too hard to steal Costco info and put your own picture on a fake card if you really wanted to. It's not like there's any biometric data on the card.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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