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Thread: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

  1. #221
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Lean: Socialist


    Couldn't be more clear.


    j-mac
    A person canstill believe the words in the bible have meaning. You are also putting me in a box, the box that you believe everyone who is a socialist fits into

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  2. #222
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, please outline how voter ID would abridge the 15th amendment then.


    j-mac
    I shall refer you to posts 211 and 219. They are having a very thought out and well reasoned discussion.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  3. #223
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    J, you have got to be kidding me lol. First of all, Lenin doesn't represent all socialists. Secondly, yes, you can be socialist and believe certain things in the Bible. It's possible. Third, I thought all those liberation theologists were Marxists too?
    thank you SB75.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  4. #224
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Voting is a right, drivers licenses are a privilege. If you want to drive "smile and look into the camera", if you want to vote-- go vote. (Not all states require you to have a "card" to vote, you are just on the voter rolls and have to say I'm so and so and I live at 123 main street.)
    So why is getting your picture taken going to change that?

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Any time you place additional requirements on an actiivty you will reduce participation in that activity. Common sense should tell you that without having to look at a study.
    Yes, in general I agree but I can't imagine a requirement to smile is having any adverse effect. As we all agree you already have to take the effort to register.

    Basically I think you're looking at this issue in an ass-backwards fashion. You don't justify a regulation by first looking at how hard it is to meet. I mean, hell, why not require that anyone walking in public wear a baseball cap? It's pretty easy for anyone to get a baseball cap, right? What' the big deal?
    It's irrelevant to anything? We already require an action here. There would be no effort on your part if we simply noted it on D.L. Now, granted not everyone has one but that would cover a large majority of people. I fail to see the effort in looking into the camera. You don't even actually have to smile.

    Rather, you start by looking at whether there is a proven need for the regulation at all. Then, IF there's a need for some kind of regulation, you look at whether the regulation that's suggested to address it is reasonable relative to the scope of the problem, or whether, perhaps, the regulation might do more harm than good.
    If someone simply took the position that they simply felt it wasn't necessary, I'd likely shrug my shoulders and say that it very well may not be needed.

    In the present case, there is next to no evidence that voter impersonation is a real problem in this country. It appears to be all but nonexistent. So the alleged harm that states are seeking to address -- elections that aren't fully representative -- seems to be made worse, rather than better, but imposing voter ID laws.
    I don't think it's a major problem. I would simply start a program that in the long run got everyone a picture I.D. It wouldn't be required for another generation. For new registrations, they would get their picture taken. There is no effort there. For those who get a new D.L. it would be noted on their D.L. Sometime in the mid to near future all would have one at no real extra effort on their part.

    To the extent that there is any real voter fraud it appears to occur almost exclusively as a result of manipulation by poll workers -- rather than as a result of voter impersonation. So if voter fraud is REALLY the issue, why aren't Republicans proposing all kinds of regulations to prevent improper manipulation of votes by poll workers? It makes one wonder if their real interest isn't voter suppression rather than voter fraud.
    For one you would have to get Holder to actually enforce them. That is setting the bar pretty high.

  6. #226
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Sure, who doesn't know that DMV's are typically models of efficiency? For real?

    In any case, it has been PROVEN that voter ID laws reduce participation. Petending that they don't, or arguing that they *shouldn't* isn't much of an argument.
    For real. Last time I renewed my driver's license, I did what most of the complainers evidently don't do, made an appointment. I looked at my watch as I entered the building: 2 minutes early. I got a picture, proved I could still see, got a thumb print, paid my money, and left three minutes past my appointment time. Pretty efficient, it seems to me.

    As for proving that requiring a photo ID reduces voter turn out, how do we know that the reduction isn't equal to number of fraudulent voters?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Absolutely. Your rantings are just that.



    I've stated that if there was a legit arguement about how this would restrict voting rights, present it. Just to note, I've seen arguements that illegals should be allowed to vote on message boards also.
    Your posts prove that denial is not just a river in Egypt.

    The GOP War on Voting | Politics News | Rolling Stone

    just the opening

    As the nation gears up for the 2012 presidential election, Republican officials have launched an unprecedented, centrally coordinated campaign to suppress the elements of the Democratic vote that elected Barack Obama in 2008. Just as Dixiecrats once used poll taxes and literacy tests to bar black Southerners from voting, a new crop of GOP governors and state legislators has passed a series of seemingly disconnected measures that could prevent millions of students, minorities, immigrants, ex-convicts and the elderly from casting ballots. "What has happened this year is the most significant setback to voting rights in this country in a century," says Judith Browne-Dianis, who monitors barriers to voting as co-director of the Advancement Project, a civil rights organization based in Washington, D.C. Republicans have long tried to drive Democratic voters away from the polls. "I don't want everybody to vote," the influential conservative activist Paul Weyrich told a gathering of evangelical leaders in 1980. "As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down." But since the 2010 election, thanks to a conservative advocacy group founded by Weyrich, the GOP's effort to disrupt voting rights has been more widespread and effective than ever. In a systematic campaign orchestrated by the American Legislative Exchange Council – and funded in part by David and Charles Koch, the billionaire brothers who bankrolled the Tea Party – 38 states introduced legislation this year designed to impede voters at every step of the electoral process.

    All told, a dozen states have approved new obstacles to voting. Kansas and Alabama now require would-be voters to provide proof of citizenship before registering. Florida and Texas made it harder for groups like the League of Women Voters to register new voters. Maine repealed Election Day voter registration, which had been on the books since 1973. Five states – Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Tennessee and West Virginia – cut short their early voting periods. Florida and Iowa barred all ex-felons from the polls, disenfranchising thousands of previously eligible voters. And six states controlled by Republican governors and legislatures – Alabama, Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin – will require voters to produce a government-issued ID before casting ballots. More than 10 percent of U.S. citizens lack such identification, and the numbers are even higher among constituencies that traditionally lean Democratic – including 18 percent of young voters and 25 percent of African-Americans.
    Read it all and learn. And then read this


    http://thinkprogress.org/progress-re...voting-rights/

    again, just the opening

    Perhaps the most nefarious legislation to pop up in states over the past year have been new laws intended to make it more difficult for people to vote. In an unprecedented move, Republican-controlled legislatures have passed a wide range of new bills in 2011 that will restrict, rather than broaden, access to the ballot box. As a result, the Brennan Center for Justice estimates that as many as 5 million voters could be disenfranchised in the 2012 election. These new laws could be enough, Rolling Stone writes, “to shift the outcome in favor of the GOP.” Indeed, with poorer voters and minorities hit hardest by the new restrictions, Republicans could see an electoral windfall in 2012 simply by changing election rules. Thirty-one years after Paul Weyrich, co-founder of the Heritage Foundation and father of the modern conservative movement, told a Dallas crowd that “I don’t want everybody to vote,” Republicans are making good on his call to making voting more difficult in the United States. Let’s take a closer look at the different ways in which states are make voting significantly more difficult.

    WAR ON VOTING: Perhaps the most sweeping change in voting rights since the 2010 election is the proliferation of state laws requiring citizens to present photo identification in order to vote. First introduced in Indiana in 2008, new “photo ID” laws have the potential to disenfranchise 3.2 million voters, mostly poorer residents and minorities. This was plainly evident when a group of retired nuns in the Hoosier State were turned away from voting in the 2008 primary election because they lacked proper photo identification. Three years later, half a dozen new states have followed Indiana’s lead: Georgia, Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Wisconsin. Rather than each state independently concluding that they needed a photo ID law, model legislation was pushed to state lawmakers by the right-wing corporate front group American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). In South Carolina alone, a new study warns that “nearly 180,000 voters – most of whom are elderly, student, minority or low-income voters – will be disenfranchised as a result of this discriminatory bill.” Meanwhile, a 96-year-old Tennessee woman named Dorothy Cooper attempted to comply with her state’s new photo ID law this month, only to be denied a voter ID because she didn’t have her marriage certificate. Cooper later told MSNBC that her experience now is worse than in the Jim Crow era. Unperturbed, some politicians like Herman Cain and Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) have thrown their support behind a national photo ID law. The war on voting isn’t just restricted to new photo ID laws; five states – Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Tennessee, and West Virginia – have reduced their early voting periods as well.
    Please do read it all. Then read this one

    http://www.nationofchange.org/watchi...hts-1321723238

    just a small part - please read it all

    With the election season on the horizon a new report is warning the legal disenfranchisement of voters threatens to play a decisive role in next year’s vote. According to the Brennan Center for Justice, a non partisan policy institute change to voting laws could strip the voting rights of more than 5 million people, a higher number than the margin of victory in two of the last three presidential elections. It’s findings show that new laws regarding photo identification requirements for voting, eliminating same day voter registration in several states, requiring proof of citizenship to register to vote, changing requirements for voter registration drives, reducing early voting days and restoring the right to vote for convicted felons will make voting harder and swing the 1964 Voting Rights pendulum backward.

    The report predicts the new curbs will have a major impact on those inclined to vote for Democratic candidates saying “these new restrictions fall most heavily on young, minority and low income voters as well as on voters with disabilities.”
    and this

    http://somewhereinthemiddle2011.blog...on-voting.html

    and this

    http://www.protectingthevote.com/
    Last edited by haymarket; 02-26-12 at 04:02 PM.
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post

    In any case, it has been PROVEN that voter ID laws reduce participation.
    No doubt. The living could only vote once and the dead not at all.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Read it all and learn.
    And six states controlled by Republican governors and legislatures – Alabama, Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin – will require voters to produce a government-issued ID before casting ballots. More than 10 percent of U.S. citizens lack such identification, and the numbers are even higher among constituencies that traditionally lean Democratic – including 18 percent of young voters and 25 percent of African-Americans.


    Give them one. It's such a big deal if we simply give them one? I call B.S.that 25 percent of A.A. don't drive. I can't think of even one young voter that doesn't have a D.L. today. I think we can dismiss this theory.

    Sorry, I hit reply before you added the other link. I'll read it now to see if it is any more valid.

    edit: The second link simple repeats the info from the first one.

    edit again: The last link is talking about fraud and illegal activites. Something we are not discussing.
    Last edited by 1Perry; 02-26-12 at 04:05 PM.

  10. #230
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    How about actually AWAY the vote for vote for your local government?

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...11-PA-0004.htm

    A very good article on the new law

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-ce...b_1278652.html
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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