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Thread: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    He was not a tea party right wing Republican. But he was very much a Republican.

    Yeah, so much of a Republican that he appeared with, and backed Obama....Nah....Sorry. He was an Arlen Spector Republican. And a disgrace.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yeah, so much of a Republican that he appeared with, and backed Obama....Nah....Sorry. He was an Arlen Spector Republican. And a disgrace.

    j-mac
    He had every right to label himself as he wished. And the people of Florida agreed with him and elected him. So apparently they had no trouble with it at one time.
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Sawyer-- you make a lot of assumptions. In Florida a few years ago the legislature and Gov. Charlie Crist (R) changed the rules and restored voting rights for former convicts.
    I am against even that, heres why.

    "Felons are given a single compound punishment at the moment of their sentencing. That compound punishment is prison time and the loss of their voting privileges. Compound punishments are dispensed every day but Sundays in cities and hamlets all across America. For example, it is common practice to condemn drunk drivers to serve jail time and to pay a fine and to lose their driving privileges. Given the mayhem and sorrow that drunk drivers cause, lesser sentences would be too lenient and therefore bad public policy. The argument at hand is about our public policy regarding felons, those people who have demonstrated their utter contempt for the laws and customs of our republic. In their freely-chosen roles as killers, rapists, perverts and all-round enemies of society felons have deprived their fellow citizens of their property, their health and even their lives. The felon selfishly enjoys the benefits of living in America while shirking the burden of obeying Americaís laws. For these reasons the Supreme Court made it crystal clear in a 1974 decision that the states can lawfully deny voting privileges to the proven enemies of our society as a punishment for their crimes."

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I am against even that, heres why.

    "Felons are given a single compound punishment at the moment of their sentencing. That compound punishment is prison time and the loss of their voting privileges. Compound punishments are dispensed every day but Sundays in cities and hamlets all across America. For example, it is common practice to condemn drunk drivers to serve jail time and to pay a fine and to lose their driving privileges. Given the mayhem and sorrow that drunk drivers cause, lesser sentences would be too lenient and therefore bad public policy. The argument at hand is about our public policy regarding felons, those people who have demonstrated their utter contempt for the laws and customs of our republic. In their freely-chosen roles as killers, rapists, perverts and all-round enemies of society felons have deprived their fellow citizens of their property, their health and even their lives. The felon selfishly enjoys the benefits of living in America while shirking the burden of obeying America’s laws. For these reasons the Supreme Court made it crystal clear in a 1974 decision that the states can lawfully deny voting privileges to the proven enemies of our society as a punishment for their crimes."
    In order to justify your belief you use a quote from Thomas Clough, a man who said Kwanzaa is "the black anti-Christmas" and "history’s most pathetic holiday"?

    I don't believe that all convicts are "proven enemies of our society".

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Sorry, "lots of studies" as the way of evidence is totally dismissable.
    That's a fair criticism. Here's a specific study you can get started with: http://journalistsresource.org/wp-co...nd-Turnout.pdf

    The short form is that voter ID laws reduce voter participation by about 1.6 - 2.2%. So, for example, if you use 2%, and take Georgia in '08, you find that participation was reduced by about 80,000 voters. That's one election. And the former Secretary of State could not think of a single example voter fraud relating to impersonation, which is what ID laws target. 80,000 can't vote to address a virtually nonexistent problem.

    This is easily enough to change the results in a tightly contested election, given that those who are disenfranchised tend vote Democratic. And that is why Republicans are pushing these laws.
    Last edited by AdamT; 02-26-12 at 01:23 PM.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    I don't believe that all convicts are "proven enemies of our society".

    Yes, they are wonderful contributors.


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    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What type of "proof" are you looking for that is not around you on most days of the week? Are you taking issue with the idea that there has NOT been a growth in conservative circles of ideology which attempts to refute the idea that their is a Constitutional right to vote?
    Absolutely. Your rantings are just that.

    That we need to impose new laws which could restrict voting for some people? That there have not been discussions right here and on other sites in which people on the right openly state that they are against certain people voting and we should connect the vote to things like payment of federal income taxes?
    I've stated that if there was a legit arguement about how this would restrict voting rights, present it. Just to note, I've seen arguements that illegals should be allowed to vote on message boards also.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    if the states are willing to provide free ID'S , or ID'S at steeply reduced price to those who need them, then i don't have a problem with asking for an ID to vote...without providing acess to an affordable/free ID, i can see how someone who is a legitimate citizen of this country could be denied their right to vote, and i can see how it could be construed as an attempt to disenfranchise certain voters.
    Any law that requires a person to spend money to vote will be thrown out.

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yes, they are wonderful contributors.


    j-mac
    Yes they are. Some have written books, created art, rehabilitated and gone on to do wonderful things. You also assume that convicts are all guilty and thus all should be denied the right to vote.

    They are not all guilty, some are convicted of fairly petty crimes and I would rather give the all the right to vote. I would think that christian believers would think the same because
    (Genesis 18:23-32)
    ď Abraham drew near, and said, "Will you consume the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous within the city? Will you consume and not spare the place for the fifty righteous who are in it?What if ten are found there?" He [The Lord] said, "I will not destroy it for the ten's sake.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

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    Re: ACLU Leader Says Voter ID Law Akin to Jim Crow-Era Law

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Did you even read this thread that discusses how difficult it is to get ID? or the discussion within this thread about who it disenfranchises?

    Of course. I just don't believe that obtaining a picture ID is any big deal. Compared to the struggle to get the right to vote to begin with, getting an ID is nothing. If the DMV were to offer free picture ID to non drivers, there would be no excuse not to have one. Few would need one in this car crazy culture of ours anyway.

    Illegals and the dearly departed would have a problem, but no one else.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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