• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Iran court convicts Christian pastor convert to death

Peter Grimm said:
Lies! I want more religion in the government, and I want nothing of this type of abuse.
Click to expand...

But it is a side effect.

If you make government of one particular religion you are naturally going to alienate people.

Government should be a place where all people can come together, and where no one is left behind.
 
Erod said:
Here we are, in the year of our Lord 2012, and still we have a so-called civilized people who follow a so-called "peaceful" religion, that is capable of a barbaric ruling such as this.

Yet more proof that indeed there are inferior people walking this earth. This wasn't decided by some backwards tribe in the desert; this came down from state leadership. More reason to not to look at Iran through the eyes of reason. Iran is fully and predictably capable of the worst our species can imagine.

This is why Israel is so antsy. It's surrounded by Neanderthals.
Click to expand...

partly you are right ,but how did you relate this issue to israel:shock:
 
X Factor said:
I don't know of any brand of Christianity that recognizes Muhammed as a prophet, just as there aren't any religions oustide of Christianity that recognizes Jesus is the Son of God. To force him to declare that Muhammed is a prophet of God, is to force him to renounce his entire faith. You're deflecting by bringing Israel into this. Is Israel set to kill someone if they don't renounce their religion? I like you, MK, but your selective outrage is as ****ing annoying as it is transparent.
Click to expand...

islam recognizes christ as the prophet , and all muslims accept his dignity .but generally they cant imagine god and jesus as a zeus and a hercules


X Factor said:
I can't believe I have to explain this, but a prophet is a religious designation, it's not some secular historical title, like "president" or "king" or something. As a Christian, I don't believe Muhammed to be a prophet and it would violate my religious beliefs if I was forced to say he was, just as it would violate a Jewish person's religion to try to force them to acknowledge Christ.
Click to expand...


yes you are right as a christian ,but i have to believe in christ to not to violate my own belief ,in fact ,i love all of them and find mystic personally
 
Last edited:
stonewall50 said:
I do NOT accept this. That is part of religion. That is NOT my belief. I can believe that Muhammad THOUGHT he was talking to Gabriel...but I don't believe he was. All this garbage you are saying here...it is all religous stuff. It isn't "historical fact" and he isn't a prophet of God. If you choose to believe he was...that is YOUR perogative. I choose not. Anyone put to death on that basis lives in a barbaric society that should not be tollerated.




It very much does in religion. If I do not accept him or know him...that makes me a non-believer. Something I have a right to be. And all Christianity does NOT recognize Muhammad as a prophet.



Then take it up with the Councils of Nicea and Carthage. They concluded what books would make up the Cannon. You could also talk to Luther if you like. The fact is that Muhammad is NOT a part of Christianity. He isn't KNOWN because Christianity cuts off before he is even alive. Now...should I have a noose put around my neck because I have a problem accept Muhammad as a prophet into my religion...which had concluded discussion on the Cannon 200 years prior?

I also REALLY have to take issue with a part of this and point it out again: "Transmitted by the same God." The Dove Outreach whackjob claims to be speaking for "My God" as well. But for some reason "godhatesfags.com" just doesn't fit in with my religion. I DON'T believe Muhammad was speaking FOR God or Translating through a divine prophet. That is why I am NOT a Muslim. How is that hard to grasp?



I wish I lived in your world where apperently planes and boats don't exist. It would be interesting to see what it would look like. But here in this world...a power that has nuclear weapons can probably figure out how to make small suitcase bombs, and then figure out how to smuggle them. It isn't like our border is that secure. Not to mention the big nukes that they could use on Israel? Sure that wouldn't disrupt the entire Middle East and possibily starting all kinds of problems? Seriously? Do understand how unstable and problematic it could be if Iran...a country that Hangs people because they think a little differently...got ahold of nuclear weapons? Not to mention...how solid are THEIR borders?



Ever read Murder in the Cathedral? It is by T.S. Eliot. This man is a TRUE martyr. Nothing to gain from death. Willingly goes anyway. Has appealed to rationality, but is instead being fed to the lions for his belief anyway. All you have to defend Iran is that he should have lied? That isn't the point. The point is that Iran is a barbaric nation. If you expect me to be "tollerant" of their actions I won't. They are WRONG and you know it. We draw a ****ing cartoon of Muhammad and those people in Iran go ape ****. Why shouldn't we get pissed off over them killing an innocent man?
Click to expand...

stonewall,christ is not a historical fact,either ,who can prove both muhammed and christ really lived scientifically ? there is no historical record that proves they had lived.,but we as believers have to accept their existence.. i think it must be easier to believe that someone is the prophet of god than to believe he is the son of god.
 
Last edited:
peter ,do you have a just criteria to determine which religion is the right one,in qoran, god says that he examines us through different books and beliefs,even if he claims islam is the last religion...
 
Medusa said:
peter ,do you have a just criteria to determine which religion is the right one,in qoran, god says that he examines us through different books and beliefs,even if he claims islam is the last religion...
Click to expand...

I believe Jesus' message to be the most holy. He taught us to love even our enemies. He taught us the message of forgiveness. It is easy to hate, to allow revenge grow in our hearts. It is difficult to love those that hate us. The message of love and forgiveness must be holy.

He taught us this, and he lived a non-violent life, and died a martyr.

I don't know much about Muhammad, but I do know that he was a warrior. He spread his message to Mecca and elsewhere with the sword, which to me can not be the way of a true prophet of God.
 
Peter Grimm said:
I believe Jesus' message to be the most holy. He taught us to love even our enemies. He taught us the message of forgiveness. It is easy to hate, to allow revenge grow in our hearts. It is difficult to love those that hate us. The message of love and forgiveness must be holy.

He taught us this, and he lived a non-violent life, and died a martyr.

I don't know much about Muhammad, but I do know that he was a warrior. He spread his message to Mecca and elsewhere with the sword, which to me can not be the way of a true prophet of God.
Click to expand...

i know about jesus as much as about muhammed,and i like him (although bible has lots of contradictions as qoran),but our matter is not his message ,but as a human we cant know which is the most beneficial one for us to believe and i suggest you read qoran and find those verses which claim that god wanted us to have different beliefs to examine us..and dont forget the crusaders whom you had defended didnt obey jesus's rules who advised human peace and love
 
Last edited:
ludahai said:
I will reserve judgement, but according to the news source, the book is from about 500 years after Christ. The four Gospel accounts we use were written within mere decades of the life of Christ. Color me HIGHLY skeptical, especially as it would directly contradict was we already know about Christ...
Click to expand...

Plus the Quran refers to jesus as the Messiah...
 
This is a tragedy and a terrible injustice. My heart goes out to the man.


Iran's government is neither civilized nor peaceful.
 
Medusa said:
stonewall,christ is not a historical fact,either ,who can prove both muhammed and christ really lived scientifically ? there is no historical record that proves they had lived.,but we as believers have to accept their existence.. i think it must be easier to believe that someone is the prophet of god than to believe he is the son of god.
Click to expand...

That really isn't the point I am making. My faith tells me that Jesus existed, and was the son of God. As it requires faith to accept Muhammad as the prophet of God. It doesn't matter if it is easier or not. It is a matter of faith. But even accepting that he was probably a historical fact doesn't mean I accept him as a prophet of God.
 
stonewall50 said:
That really isn't the point I am making. My faith tells me that Jesus existed, and was the son of God. As it requires faith to accept Muhammad as the prophet of God. It doesn't matter if it is easier or not. It is a matter of faith. But even accepting that he was probably a historical fact doesn't mean I accept him as a prophet of God.
Click to expand...

if you believe christ is the son of god and historical fact ,at least you should accept the historical fact of muhammed , too ,even if you dont regard him as a prophet..
 
Medusa said:
if you believe christ is the son of god and historical fact ,at least you should accept the historical fact of muhammed , too ,even if you dont regard him as a prophet..
Click to expand...

Sort of. I accept Christ based upon faith. If I choose to not accept Muhammad, I do not have too. Believing in one does not mean I must believe in the other.

BUT I do find it likely that a man named Muhammad did exist. I obviously choose not to accept him as a prophet since I am not a Muslim.
 
stonewall50 said:
Sort of. I accept Christ based upon faith. If I choose to not accept Muhammad, I do not have too. Believing in one does not mean I must believe in the other.

BUT I do find it likely that a man named Muhammad did exist. I obviously choose not to accept him as a prophet since I am not a Muslim.
Click to expand...

but why did you say he wasnt a historical fact?
 
Medusa said:
but why did you say he wasnt a historical fact?
Click to expand...

He isn't a solid fact. There is debate on if he existed or not. No proof that he existed either. I believe it is likely that he existed though.
 
stonewall50 said:
He isn't a solid fact. There is debate on if he existed or not. No proof that he existed either. I believe it is likely that he existed though.
Click to expand...

he is as real as christ.:roll:
 
Medusa said:
islam recognizes christ as the prophet , and all muslims accept his dignity .but generally they cant imagine god and jesus as a zeus and a hercules





yes you are right as a christian ,but i have to believe in christ to not to violate my own belief ,in fact ,i love all of them and find mystic personally
Click to expand...

That's cool, Medusa. To each their own. I just don't want anyone to think that trying to force this Christian pastor to acknowledge Muhammed in a religious sense is anything less than trying to force him to renounce his entire religion. I have great respect for the man for holding firm to his beliefs even in the face of potential death.
 
This is a horrible violation of human rights and only proves that Iran's government and laws are both barbaric and dangerous. I sincerely hope that this man is able to live and escape the death sentence, but I admire his faith in the midst of ultimate persecution.
 
Hare said:
Truly Sad that there are still entire societies dwelling in the dark ages.
Click to expand...

States certainly but not an entire society, this never took place when Iranians could vote in free and fair elections
 
X Factor said:
That's cool, Medusa. To each their own. I just don't want anyone to think that trying to force this Christian pastor to acknowledge Muhammed in a religious sense is anything less than trying to force him to renounce his entire religion. I have great respect for the man for holding firm to his beliefs even in the face of potential death.
Click to expand...

i respect him too,because he is brave enough to change his beliefs as a person living in iran.i was trying to explain what muslims usually think about christ.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Your missing the point. We're SUPPOSED to blame the Muslims, because they're Muslims!
Click to expand...

It's pretty hard no to blame them for this, isn't it? Or are muslims never to be held accountable for anything? This is being done in the name of their religion, and I'd bet you most muslims in Iran have no problem with it.

This constant defense of everything any Muslim country does on the basis of dislike for the U.S. and its foreign policy is bizarre.
 
Wiggen said:
It's pretty hard no to blame them for this, isn't it? Or are muslims never to be held accountable for anything? This is being done in the name of their religion, and I'd bet you most muslims in Iran have no problem with it.

This constant defense of everything any Muslim country does on the basis of dislike for the U.S. and its foreign policy is bizarre.
Click to expand...
no this is being done in the name of islamist ideology......
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom