• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Iran court convicts Christian pastor convert to death

TOJ said:
What the hell business is it of anyone outside Iran? It's their culture and if you don't like it, too damn bad. Y'all should quit sticking your noses where they don't not belong.

.
Click to expand...

should the world have remained silent and taken no action regarding the holocaust?
 
justabubba said:
should the world have remained silent and taken no action regarding the holocaust?
Click to expand...
If I remember my history correctly, no one gave a damn until Germany started wars outside it's borders. :doh

If Germany had not invaded other countries, they could still be killing Jews.

.
 
MKULTRABOY said:
No Israel will just kill some scientists in their homes or cars or at work. No biggie.
Click to expand...

Israel's in a tough spot. There are no easy answers. Does Israel just sit back and allow Iran, whose president has already said Israel is a "cancer" that should be eradicated, to develop a weapon of mass destruction if it threatens their very existance? I don't see how they can.
 
Honestly. I don't want us to go to war with Iran...but something must be done. They are the real cancer. They are dangerous, isolating themselves from the world, they have fundamentalist whackos in charge who want to disrupt "peace," and they are pursuing nuclear weapons. Let's add in the fact that they aren't far from Israel.

This incident with the pastor is just wrong. It is a clear example that Iran has no concern for human rights. It may "not be our buisness" right now, but it "wasn't our buisness" when Hitler pursued the increasing size of the German military, provided weapons to the Spanish, annexed Austria, etc. Does anyone understand that history is cyclical? Or is it just me? I have 10 books ranging from the early 18th century to present day. Each one has plenty of examples of what happens when a country says it isn't my buisness. Plenty of examples of what happens when "weapons of mass destruction" by whackos with "fundamentalist" ideas about expansion and invasion and fundamentalist justifications.
 
This underlines the danger of that government obtaining nuclear weapons.
 
So little thread, so much hijack. :(

This is one damned courageous man. He knew exactly what would happen to him, and will willing to give his life for his convictions and to make a statement. Let's not turn this into another "bash-Islam, bash-Israel" muckfest. It would demean this fine man's sacrifice.
 
Erod said:
Here we are, in the year of our Lord 2012, and still we have a so-called civilized people who follow a so-called "peaceful" religion, that is capable of a barbaric ruling such as this.

Yet more proof that indeed there are inferior people walking this earth. This wasn't decided by some backwards tribe in the desert; this came down from state leadership. More reason to not to look at Iran through the eyes of reason. Iran is fully and predictably capable of the worst our species can imagine.

This is why Israel is so antsy. It's surrounded by Neanderthals.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that it is awful that this pastor has been sentenced to death but I think it is not so much the religion as the idiotic regime that rules in Iran that does things like this.

As far as that goes I fully agree with you, but I do not agree with regards to Iranians being a inferior people. This is not done by a people, this is done by a very rotten regime. And you in the eyes of Iran they are doing the reasonable thing with bringing this person to death even though I (and any sane person in the world would disagree).

People should be free to choose whatever religion they want (or choose no religion) without the fear of persecution.
 
X Factor said:
Israel's in a tough spot. There are no easy answers. Does Israel just sit back and allow Iran, whose president has already said Israel is a "cancer" that should be eradicated, to develop a weapon of mass destruction if it threatens their very existance? I don't see how they can.
Click to expand...

They have no choice really they can slow them down but it can't be stopped. Iran is in encirclement by the US, and happens to be a relatively developed country that is coming along. They'd be less extreme if they weren't being pinched so damned hard. Too bad its a religious apocalyptic thing on both sides. They at least have the right to not be annihilated.
 
DiAnna said:
So little thread, so much hijack. :(

This is one damned courageous man. He knew exactly what would happen to him, and will willing to give his life for his convictions and to make a statement. Let's not turn this into another "bash-Islam, bash-Israel" muckfest. It would demean this fine man's sacrifice.
Click to expand...

DiAnna I think hes damned ignorant. He joined a brand of Christianity that doesn't recognize that Muhammad was a prophet, no **** he was a profit, as was Christ, to ignore that is to be ignorant of history basically. All he had to do was confirm that at least Muhammad was a prophet and nothing else and he would've been fine and not caused suffering to his family and an international spectacle. They would've allowed him to remain a christian, and alive.

It's harsh and a damned tragedy I'd rather religious persecution didn't happen, but welcome to the middle east. Christian churches and muslim mosques get vacated by force and demolished by Israel regularly and turned into target practice.

Nothing good in any of it. =\
 
Last edited:
MKULTRABOY said:
DiAnna I think hes damned ignorant. He joined a brand of Christianity that doesn't recognize that Muhammad was a prophet, no **** he was a profit, as was Christ, to ignore that is to be ignorant of history basically. All he had to do was confirm that at least Muhammad was a prophet and nothing else and he would've been fine and not caused suffering to his family and an international spectacle. They would've allowed him to remain a christian, and alive.

It's harsh and a damned tragedy I'd rather religious persecution didn't happen, but welcome to the middle east. Christian churches and muslim mosques get vacated by force and demolished by Israel regularly and turned into target practice.

Nothing good in any of it. =\
Click to expand...

I don't know of any brand of Christianity that recognizes Muhammed as a prophet, just as there aren't any religions oustide of Christianity that recognizes Jesus is the Son of God. To force him to declare that Muhammed is a prophet of God, is to force him to renounce his entire faith. You're deflecting by bringing Israel into this. Is Israel set to kill someone if they don't renounce their religion? I like you, MK, but your selective outrage is as ****ing annoying as it is transparent.
 
X Factor said:
I don't know of any brand of Christianity that recognizes Muhammed as a prophet, just as there aren't any religions oustide of Christianity that recognizes Jesus is the Son of God. To force him to declare that Muhammed is a prophet of God, is to force him to renounce his entire faith. You're deflecting by bringing Israel into this. Is Israel set to kill someone if they don't renounce their religion? I like you, MK, but your selective outrage is as ****ing annoying as it is transparent.
Click to expand...

Selective ignorance my balls.
Some christian think Muslims worship a different god. Last I checked history... that isn't the case.
They can **** right off too... like a bunch of ignorant hicks. :shrug:
They were going to let him live if he confirmed a historical fact, there has been a handful of prophets on earth and it's pretty obvious.
Confirming that Muhammad was a prophet does not violate Christianity. Islam recognizes Christ respectably.

FAIR Blog » Blog Archive » Newsweek and the 'War on Christians'

A wholly different kind of war is underway--an unrecognized battle costing thousands of lives. Christians are being killed in the Islamic world because of their religion. It is a rising genocide that ought to provoke global alarm.
Click to expand...

I think Highschool degrees should be required before you're allowed to blog. I apologize if you don't notice the obvious.

I also mentioned that Israel has demolished christian churches as well, not to mention abused the members of their communities.
But y'all don't seem to mind this.
 
What do you think would happen to gas prices in the event of war with Iran?

Can't have it both ways, guys.
 
MKULTRABOY said:
DiAnna I think hes damned ignorant. He joined a brand of Christianity that doesn't recognize that Muhammad was a prophet, no **** he was a profit, as was Christ, to ignore that is to be ignorant of history basically. All he had to do was confirm that at least Muhammad was a prophet and nothing else and he would've been fine and not caused suffering to his family and an international spectacle. They would've allowed him to remain a christian, and alive.
Click to expand...

Christianity does not recognize Muhammad as a profit. Neither does Judiasm. Neither does any other religion that is NOT Islam. That is why we are all infidels. A profit in religous terms means that they speak for God. If we believed he spoke for God, then we would be Muslims.

He wasn't damned ignorant. He expected religous tollerance. Clearly that isn't something they are big on in Iran.
 
MKULTRABOY said:
Selective ignorance my balls.
Some christian think Muslims worship a different god. Last I checked history... that isn't the case.
They can **** right off too... like a bunch of ignorant hicks. :shrug:
They were going to let him live if he confirmed a historical fact, there has been a handful of prophets on earth and it's pretty obvious.
Confirming that Muhammad was a prophet does not violate Christianity. Islam recognizes Christ respectably.

FAIR Blog » Blog Archive » Newsweek and the 'War on Christians'



I think Highschool degrees should be required before you're allowed to blog. I apologize if you don't notice the obvious.

I also mentioned that Israel has demolished christian churches as well, not to mention abused the members of their communities.
But y'all don't seem to mind this.
Click to expand...

1) Allah and God are the same. That isn't where Islam and Christianity differ. We differ on Muhammad. We don't recognize him as speaking for God as a prophet.

2)Historical fact would be that he existed. At least this is contested, but I myself find it hard to believe that he didn't exist. Historical fact is NOT that he was a prohet of God as I know him.

3) Us "ignorant hicks" should not be forced to believe the teachings of Muhammad.

4) While I am not going to get into a debate about Israel, I will say that they are NOT on my radar of dangerous to Western Society as a whole because of their possession of nuclear weapons.

End of the day this is about the man being executed for his faith. He does not recognize Muhammad as a prophet of God. It is brave him, because it is clear that that nation has 0 tollerance of anything out of the norm.

Why does Iran not have Gays?

homosexualsiran.jpg
 
stonewall50 said:
1) Allah and God are the same. That isn't where Islam and Christianity differ. We differ on Muhammad. We don't recognize him as speaking for God as a prophet.

2)Historical fact would be that he existed. At least this is contested, but I myself find it hard to believe that he didn't exist. Historical fact is NOT that he was a prohet of God as I know him.

3) Us "ignorant hicks" should not be forced to believe the teachings of Muhammad.

4) While I am not going to get into a debate about Israel, I will say that they are NOT on my radar of dangerous to Western Society as a whole because of their possession of nuclear weapons.

End of the day this is about the man being executed for his faith. He does not recognize Muhammad as a prophet of God. It is brave him, because it is clear that that nation has 0 tollerance of anything out of the norm.

Why does Iran not have Gays?

View attachment 67122930
Click to expand...

you are going to hate to see this:
A secret Bible in which Jesus is believed to predict the coming of the Prophet Muhammad to Earth has sparked serious interest from the Vatican.
... Turkish culture and tourism minister Ertugrul Gunay said the book could be an authentic version of the Gospel, which was suppressed by the Christian Church for its strong parallels with the Islamic view of Jesus.
He also said the Vatican had made an official request to see the scripture - a controversial text which Muslims claim is an addition to the original gospels of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John.
In line with Islamic belief, the Gospel treats Jesus as a human being and not a God.
It rejects the ideas of the Holy Trinity and the Crucifixion and reveals that Jesus predicted the coming of the Prophet Muhammad.
In one version of the gospel, he is said to have told a priest: 'How shall the Messiah be called? Muhammad is his blessed name'.
And in another Jesus denied being the Messiah, claiming that he or she would be Ishmaelite, the term used for an Arab.
Click to expand...
Secret £14million Bible in which 'Jesus predicts coming of Prophet Muhammad' unearthed in Turkey | Mail Online
 
justabubba said:
you are going to hate to see this:

Secret £14million Bible in which 'Jesus predicts coming of Prophet Muhammad' unearthed in Turkey | Mail Online
Click to expand...

Oh **** you're not saying the christian bible and the story of christ have been edited now. That'd be nuts.

1) Allah and God are the same. That isn't where Islam and Christianity differ. We differ on Muhammad. We don't recognize him as speaking for God as a prophet.
Click to expand...

Lesson, he did not speak FOR god... he apparently transmitted the word of the god of abraham through the angel gabriel, known to all faiths.
2)Historical fact would be that he existed. At least this is contested, but I myself find it hard to believe that he didn't exist. Historical fact is NOT that he was a prohet of God as I know him.
Click to expand...

As you know him doesn't matter.
3) Us "ignorant hicks" should not be forced to believe the teachings of Muhammad.
Click to expand...

They are transmitted from the same god, and similar to other texts transmitted to humans through prophets by said god. I fail to see the issue.

4) While I am not going to get into a debate about Israel, I will say that they are NOT on my radar of dangerous to Western Society as a whole because of their possession of nuclear weapons.
Click to expand...

Neither is Iran. Funny, how curiously analyzing a little geopolitics and hard power shows that we just may perhaps be an existential threat to them.

End of the day this is about the man being executed for his faith. He does not recognize Muhammad as a prophet of God. It is brave him, because it is clear that that nation has 0 tollerance of anything out of the norm.
Click to expand...

It was dumb... he could've lied, they frankly would've let the guy live even knowing he could get off with lying, all he had to do was say muhammad was a prophet. His bravery made his kids fatherless. He probably just had to sing it with a little spirit or something.
 
I can't believe I have to explain this, but a prophet is a religious designation, it's not some secular historical title, like "president" or "king" or something. As a Christian, I don't believe Muhammed to be a prophet and it would violate my religious beliefs if I was forced to say he was, just as it would violate a Jewish person's religion to try to force them to acknowledge Christ.
 
justabubba said:
you are going to hate to see this:

Secret £14million Bible in which 'Jesus predicts coming of Prophet Muhammad' unearthed in Turkey | Mail Online
Click to expand...

Why would I hate that? Do you know what the Council of Nicea is? Or Council of Carthage? We Christians have actually had this whole what books of the Bible should be included debate...oh I don't know 1700 years ago. Of course some of us didn't really care much of the way that body was working...so someone that wasn't famous then got a paper, quill, ink, a hammer, and a nail and let that Church know.

MY faith is what matters. I could care less about what "other books" there were.
 
MKULTRABOY said:
Lesson, he did not speak FOR god... he apparently transmitted the word of the god of abraham through the angel gabriel, known to all faiths.
Click to expand...

I do NOT accept this. That is part of religion. That is NOT my belief. I can believe that Muhammad THOUGHT he was talking to Gabriel...but I don't believe he was. All this garbage you are saying here...it is all religous stuff. It isn't "historical fact" and he isn't a prophet of God. If you choose to believe he was...that is YOUR perogative. I choose not. Anyone put to death on that basis lives in a barbaric society that should not be tollerated.


As you know him doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

It very much does in religion. If I do not accept him or know him...that makes me a non-believer. Something I have a right to be. And all Christianity does NOT recognize Muhammad as a prophet.

They are transmitted from the same god, and similar to other texts transmitted to humans through prophets by said god. I fail to see the issue.
Click to expand...

Then take it up with the Councils of Nicea and Carthage. They concluded what books would make up the Cannon. You could also talk to Luther if you like. The fact is that Muhammad is NOT a part of Christianity. He isn't KNOWN because Christianity cuts off before he is even alive. Now...should I have a noose put around my neck because I have a problem accept Muhammad as a prophet into my religion...which had concluded discussion on the Cannon 200 years prior?

I also REALLY have to take issue with a part of this and point it out again: "Transmitted by the same God." The Dove Outreach whackjob claims to be speaking for "My God" as well. But for some reason "godhatesfags.com" just doesn't fit in with my religion. I DON'T believe Muhammad was speaking FOR God or Translating through a divine prophet. That is why I am NOT a Muslim. How is that hard to grasp?

Neither is Iran. Funny, how curiously analyzing a little geopolitics and hard power shows that we just may perhaps be an existential threat to them.
Click to expand...

I wish I lived in your world where apperently planes and boats don't exist. It would be interesting to see what it would look like. But here in this world...a power that has nuclear weapons can probably figure out how to make small suitcase bombs, and then figure out how to smuggle them. It isn't like our border is that secure. Not to mention the big nukes that they could use on Israel? Sure that wouldn't disrupt the entire Middle East and possibily starting all kinds of problems? Seriously? Do understand how unstable and problematic it could be if Iran...a country that Hangs people because they think a little differently...got ahold of nuclear weapons? Not to mention...how solid are THEIR borders?

It was dumb... he could've lied,
Click to expand...

Ever read Murder in the Cathedral? It is by T.S. Eliot. This man is a TRUE martyr. Nothing to gain from death. Willingly goes anyway. Has appealed to rationality, but is instead being fed to the lions for his belief anyway. All you have to defend Iran is that he should have lied? That isn't the point. The point is that Iran is a barbaric nation. If you expect me to be "tollerant" of their actions I won't. They are WRONG and you know it. We draw a ****ing cartoon of Muhammad and those people in Iran go ape ****. Why shouldn't we get pissed off over them killing an innocent man?
 
MKULTRABOY said:
DiAnna I think hes damned ignorant. He joined a brand of Christianity that doesn't recognize that Muhammad was a prophet, no **** he was a profit, as was Christ, to ignore that is to be ignorant of history basically. All he had to do was confirm that at least Muhammad was a prophet and nothing else and he would've been fine and not caused suffering to his family and an international spectacle. They would've allowed him to remain a christian, and alive.

It's harsh and a damned tragedy I'd rather religious persecution didn't happen, but welcome to the middle east. Christian churches and muslim mosques get vacated by force and demolished by Israel regularly and turned into target practice.

Nothing good in any of it. =\
Click to expand...

They demanded that he renounce his beliefs. He'd rather die than do that. Quite frankly, it's that simple. Insulting a man because of his beliefs is the antithesis of what America's constitutional freedom of religion stands for, and I'm disappointed that you would do so.
 
Last edited:
MKULTRABOY said:
DiAnna I think hes damned ignorant. He joined a brand of Christianity that doesn't recognize that Muhammad was a prophet, no **** he was a profit, as was Christ, to ignore that is to be ignorant of history basically. All he had to do was confirm that at least Muhammad was a prophet and nothing else and he would've been fine and not caused suffering to his family and an international spectacle. They would've allowed him to remain a christian, and alive.

It's harsh and a damned tragedy I'd rather religious persecution didn't happen, but welcome to the middle east. Christian churches and muslim mosques get vacated by force and demolished by Israel regularly and turned into target practice.

Nothing good in any of it. =\
Click to expand...

Nice to live in a country like Taiwan which is one of the world's most religiously tolerant countries.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom