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Iran court convicts Christian pastor convert to death

TheNextEra said:
Rich, educated people get STDs and pregnant as well, so no, education does not prevent those things.

Look, it would be nice if we lived in a world that we didn't need to buy car insurance, because there were no accidents. Or not have to lock our doors because there was no crime. This would be a world that a Catholic would love as well as I would. However, we don't live in that kind of world and not everyone follows religion.

That is why it is best to arm our teens with the KNOWLEDGE of proper contraception use and application. you simply cannot stop teens from having sex. It's impossible unless you plan to lock them away at all hours. Yes, teaching them about morals and not having sex until married is great, but it's simply unrealistic to believe EVERY teen is going to follow that.

Given the reality of the situation I'd rather teens have access to and use contraception rather than come home pregnant or with an STD.

That reality is why I think Catholicism's lack of contraception is not only archaic but dangerous and wreckless when applied. You are free to think differently but many people think as I do.
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Sex isn't a car accident. It's something you choose to do. Every person who is old enough to have sex is old enough to make a responsible choice.

The fact is, it is more moral to wait until marriage. The world would be a better place if everyone did that. The Church is standing up for the best of what humanity can do.

Personally, I'm glad we have a beacon to follow, even if most of us aren't strong enough to live up to all of its teachings.

You use the word "reality," but what you are saying is that you are settling for less because you don't believe people are capable of being righteous. I think people are capable.

The church should be educating people about family values, marriage, and it should be teaching young people that sex is special. We should be helping Africa to get rid of prostitution and rape.
 
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Peter Grimm said:
Sex isn't a car accident. It's something you choose to do. Every person who is old enough to have sex is old enough to make a responsible choice.

The fact is, it is more moral to wait until marriage. The world would be a better place if everyone did that. The Church is standing up for the best of what humanity can do.

Personally, I'm glad we have a beacon to follow, even if most of us aren't strong enough to live up to all of its teachings.

You use the word "reality," but what you are saying is that you are settling for less because you don't believe people are capable of being righteous. I think people are capable.

The church should be educating people about family values, marriage, and it should be teaching young people that sex is special. We should be helping Africa to get rid of prostitution and rape.
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And if everyone followed the church's teaching, there would be no crime.

If everyone followed the church's teaching, there would be no poverty.

I bring up reality, because the reality is the world is not, has never been, and will never be the utopia that the church's teachings would have.

Therefore, real things like jails, locks, police officer, etc are needed.

To combat STDs and pregancies, contraceptions are needed. So yes, the REALITY is that the majority of people are NOT going to follow the church's teachings in regards to sex so I would rather arm teens with knowledge and things that will actually help them.

Again, your choice, but I choose to live in reality and protect teens instead of putting them in harms way with an archaic belief that contraceptions are bad.
 
TheNextEra said:
And if everyone followed the church's teaching, there would be no crime.

If everyone followed the church's teaching, there would be no poverty.

I bring up reality, because the reality is the world is not, has never been, and will never be the utopia that the church's teachings would have.

Therefore, real things like jails, locks, police officer, etc are needed.

To combat STDs and pregancies, contraceptions are needed. So yes, the REALITY is that the majority of people are NOT going to follow the church's teachings in regards to sex so I would rather arm teens with knowledge and things that will actually help them.

Again, your choice, but I choose to live in reality and protect teens instead of putting them in harms way with an archaic belief that contraceptions are bad.
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Fine, I can live with that.

Cephus' original premise was that the Catholic Religion was "bad" because they don't hand out condoms in Africa.

I think that has been put to rest.

You can accept an imperfect reality and do whatever you can to "arm" people as you think is best (although I don't share your pessimism, and disagree that is the best way to better people's lives). That doesn't make the Church "bad" for following through on its higher principles.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Cephus' original premise was that the Catholic Religion was "bad" because they don't hand out condoms in Africa.
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Except that's a complete lie, I said nothing of the sort and you know it. I said they were bad, at least I said the Pope was bad, because they *OPPOSE* condom use in Africa. Nothing about handing them out. Using them. No matter who hands them out, the RCC is telling their followers not to use them.

That's what's bad.
 
Peter Grimm said:
That doesn't make the Church "bad" for following through on its higher principles.
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For not allowing contraception, yes, I think it is bad when applied. I think it is wreckless and dangerous. I will always believe that.

I think that archaic belief is harming people more than helping.
 
TheNextEra said:
For not allowing contraception, yes, I think it is bad when applied. I think it is wreckless and dangerous. I will always believe that.

I think that archaic belief is harming people more than helping.
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Do we hand out knives to curb gun violence?

You have to correct the underlying corrupted behavior, not patch up the symptom. You're trying to put a band-aid on a bullet wound.
 
Cephus said:
Except that's a complete lie, I said nothing of the sort and you know it. I said they were bad, at least I said the Pope was bad, because they *OPPOSE* condom use in Africa. Nothing about handing them out. Using them. No matter who hands them out, the RCC is telling their followers not to use them.

That's what's bad.
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It's good to oppose condom use in Africa. We should be teaching abstinence until marriage. We should be teaching family values, and we should be helping them to get rid of rape and prostitution.
 
Peter Grimm said:
It's good to oppose condom use in Africa. We should be teaching abstinence until marriage. We should be teaching family values, and we should be helping them to get rid of rape and prostitution.
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With the amount of AIDS flying around? No, it's not a good idea.
 
Peter Grimm said:
It's good to oppose condom use in Africa. We should be teaching abstinence until marriage. We should be teaching family values, and we should be helping them to get rid of rape and prostitution.
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It's idiotic to ignore human nature in favor of some antiquated idea that not even the people who propose it actually follow.
 
Cephus said:
It's idiotic to ignore human nature in favor of some antiquated idea that not even the people who propose it actually follow.
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We ignore human nature all the time. You don't strangle everyone who angers you. You don't piss on the sidewalk just because you feel the urge. You don't steal candy from a baby just because you're hungry.
 
MKULTRABOY said:
Cute... you can't analogise this situation to a rape but you can deflect dodge and try your hardest to the point where I support stoning rape victims.

Looking sharp.
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You said might make rights there slick. So obviously you think it is right...sense the judges in Iran have the might to have children stoned for no reason.
 
Cephus said:
Seriously? The guy who opposes condoms in AIDS ridden Africa and who wrote the rules for hiding child-molesting priests?
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[/QUOTE]

That's a rather serious charge.

Do you have any information to support that allegation?
 
TheNextEra said:
The simple fact is absetence only is just simply not reasonable in today's age. Blame it all on what you want, but unwanted pregnancies and STDs are something that need to be combated and contraception is the reasonable way.
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That's not a fact at all. What is a fact is that since the birth control pill came along unwanted pregnancies have skyrocketed.

Unless you are going to start forcing people into abstenence (good luck) contraceptions are the most reasonable way to combat these things in today's time.
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Perhaps people are just more stupid now than they once were, and there is a great deal of evidence to support that idea.

I know many people that are turned off from Catholicism for the contraception reason.
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If theese people feel contraception was the main foucus of the Catholic Church then they will not be missed.

IMO, the whole reason Catholics have that in the religion is so that people will have babies and raise them as Catholics. It's a means to procreation for the religion.
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So the only reason people have children is to maintain a religion? Little wonder then that so many atheists and agnostics are having abortions.
 
Cephus said:
Let me know when that works against bad Christian leaders like the Pope.
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This is what happens when the debate is being lost. A thread about "Iran court convicts Christian pastor convert to death" will become a debate over whether the Pope is a bad person or not.

This is a direct consequence of the dumbing down of American society.

Subversion of Education in America
 
Grant said:
This is what happens when the debate is being lost. A thread about "Iran court convicts Christian pastor convert to death" will become a debate over whether the Pope is a bad person or not.

This is a direct consequence of the dumbing down of American society.

Subversion of Education in America
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Good call. I didn't notice the deflection.
 
Cephus said:
Which one? That the Pope opposes condoms in Africa or that he's the one who wrote the rules for hiding child-molesting priests? None of this is hard to find information.
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Opposing the use of condoms is not a crime but hiding child molesters is.

Please point out specifically where the Pope hid child molesters.
 
Grant said:
This is what happens when the debate is being lost. A thread about "Iran court convicts Christian pastor convert to death" will become a debate over whether the Pope is a bad person or not.
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It was in response to someone who said the Muslims had a responsibility to take down bad religious leaders, I pointed out the hypocrisy of the statement, by pointing out that they can say that about other religions, but not do anything about their own.

That's what happens when you don't actually read the thread.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Good call. I didn't notice the deflection.
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They often make these charges so extreme and bizarre that it's difficult not to respond.

They will never mention sexual misconduct within Islam, or among sports celebrities. It is always the Catholic Church that is the top of their agenda.

These are the people on which the future of free world depends. A scary thought, isnt it?
 
Grant said:
Opposing the use of condoms is not a crime but hiding child molesters is.

Please point out specifically where the Pope hid child molesters.
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You have a problem reading, don't you? I said he WROTE THE RULES, which he did. Read the link. It specifically tells diocese not to inform the police of cases of potential child molestation, but to keep it under wraps. In fact, no matter how strong the evidence for the crime was, the worst a priest could receive under the rules was a canonical trial, with the worst penalty they could possibly receive was defrocking. This was the official policy of the Catholic Church from 1962-2001 when it became absurdly obvious they could no longer keep the molestation scandal under wraps.
 
Can we agree that Christianity is generally more peaceful than Islam?
 
Cephus said:
It was in response to someone who said the Muslims had a responsibility to take down bad religious leaders, I pointed out the hypocrisy of the statement, by pointing out that they can say that about other religions, but not do anything about their own.

That's what happens when you don't actually read the thread.
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You clearly know nothing of the Catholic Church, the monies paid out, the charges which were laid, and so on.

When Christians behave badly people in the democracies respond. When Muslims act badly - murdering, rioting, looting, burning, etc.- it is said that nothing can be done and what about Catholic priests.

Do you really believe that to be an intelligent response?
 
Cephus said:
You have a problem reading, don't you? I said he WROTE THE RULES, which he did. Read the link. It specifically tells diocese not to inform the police of cases of potential child molestation, but to keep it under wraps. In fact, no matter how strong the evidence for the crime was, the worst a priest could receive under the rules was a canonical trial, with the worst penalty they could possibly receive was defrocking. This was the official policy of the Catholic Church from 1962-2001 when it became absurdly obvious they could no longer keep the molestation scandal under wraps.
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Do you read what you post?

Benedict didn't become Pope until AFTER 2001!

Why not go to another thread.
 
Grant said:
Do you read what you post?

Benedict didn't become Pope until AFTER 2001!

Why not go to another thread.
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You know he didn't just magically pop into existence at his beatification, right? :roll:
 
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