Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

Navy Pride · Mar 3, 2012

j-mac said:
Why surprised? Amy Goodman has been spewing propaganda for decades, why should she change now?

j-mac

She has been a hater for years........Screw the Afghans....Hussein Obama get our ass out of Afganistan. We are not appreciated there anyhow.

j-mac · Mar 3, 2012

Navy Pride said:
She has been a hater for years........Screw the Afghans....Hussein Obama get our ass out of Afganistan. We are not appreciated there anyhow.

first I'd like an apology from them for those killed over this.

j-mac

RDS · Mar 3, 2012

The U.S. invaded two muslim countries and occupied their land for 10 years. U.S. might have valid reasons to invade but there is no reason to remain on their land for 10 years. Face the consequences now.

Grant · Mar 4, 2012

Boo Radley said:
Christains have had their share of savagery throughout history. And under the right circumstances, they could likely be so again.

Another goofy deflection from the addle-headed leftists.

Wiseone · Mar 4, 2012

Here's the facts of the matter. Regardless of how you feel over burning a Koran, in the US or Afghanistan, the Afghanis are going to get pretty damn upset about it and it, as seen, will result in American Soldiers being killed. Therefore you're opinion on Koran burning is entirely irrelevant to the situation, you can be entirely against it, or entirely for it, to the Afghanis the ones who potentially will kill US Soldiers your opinion does not matter. So lets stop pretending that anyone's opinion on Koran burning does matter, what matters if the Afghan's opinions on it and what they will do if it occurs.

Put your pride aside, its irrelevant, unnecessary, and frankly if decisions were made off what would and wouldn't defend your pride it would get people killed. Is your pride so valuable?

j-mac · Mar 4, 2012

Wiseone said:
Here's the facts of the matter. Regardless of how you feel over burning a Koran, in the US or Afghanistan, the Afghanis are going to get pretty damn upset about it and it, as seen, will result in American Soldiers being killed. Therefore you're opinion on Koran burning is entirely irrelevant to the situation, you can be entirely against it, or entirely for it, to the Afghanis the ones who potentially will kill US Soldiers your opinion does not matter. So lets stop pretending that anyone's opinion on Koran burning does matter, what matters if the Afghan's opinions on it and what they will do if it occurs.

Put your pride aside, its irrelevant, unnecessary, and frankly if decisions were made off what would and wouldn't defend your pride it would get people killed. Is your pride so valuable?

Oh for goodness sake. For a poster with a screen name such as yours, you sure are not displaying much with this entry my friend.

You don't think that discussing the events, or offering our opinion matters, and to that you are right, our little space here in the vastness of the internet is but a spec in the overall vastness of the net. But, we are in here, on an opinion site mind you, offering our opinions and discussing the situation.

You however, wasted alot of space here to basically post on an opinion site, about how others opinions are useless and irrelevant, yet you offer your opinion of them being justified in killing Americans over the inadvertent burning of a book as if IT IS relevant.

Good job, at showing everyone how inflated your own ego is.

j-mac

j-mac · Mar 4, 2012

RDS said:
The U.S. invaded two muslim countries and occupied their land for 10 years. U.S. might have valid reasons to invade but there is no reason to remain on their land for 10 years. Face the consequences now.

Sometimes the most noble of intentions don't work. As for the consequences, do you see the killings as justified?

j-mac

Grant · Mar 4, 2012

Wiseone said:
Here's the facts of the matter. Regardless of how you feel over burning a Koran, in the US or Afghanistan, the Afghanis are going to get pretty damn upset about it and it, as seen, will result in American Soldiers being killed. Therefore you're opinion on Koran burning is entirely irrelevant to the situation, you can be entirely against it, or entirely for it, to the Afghanis the ones who potentially will kill US Soldiers your opinion does not matter. So lets stop pretending that anyone's opinion on Koran burning does matter, what matters if the Afghan's opinions on it and what they will do if it occurs.

Put your pride aside, its irrelevant, unnecessary, and frankly if decisions were made off what would and wouldn't defend your pride it would get people killed. Is your pride so valuable?

It seems also in this scenario you advance the idea that American opinion doesn't matter, that they are just onlookers in all of this and will be murdered if the Afghanis are offended and get the opportunity to murder them. Americans, of course, remain secure in the knowledge that they are a superior culture, will remain unoffended, and let their soldiers die rather than respond in any meaningful way.

What has brought about this change in national character that Americans will allow themselves to be killed and then blame the killings on themselves? That has been going on at since 9/11 at least, despite the current President making apology tours and blaming America for the world's problems, past and the present.

All the modern weaponry in the world is meaningless without courage, without standing up to those who would do you harm, and doing it to them first. Americans are assisting in deposing leaders who have managed to keep a lid on much of the ignorance-fueled hatreds built up over centuries and are now allowing it, and even encouraging it, to be released.

This current President, still being supported by a generation made ignorant by an American educational system run amuck, is making the world a far more dangerous place, and many more people will die as a consequence. The United States should just pull out of everywhere and let each country fend for itself. The Americans have become unreliable and thus more dangerous than they would be just sitting on their hands at home.

They'll grope each other at airports but believe Muslims with guns are no security risk at all. It doesn't get much dumber than this.

RDS · Mar 4, 2012

j-mac said:
Sometimes the most noble of intentions don't work. As for the consequences, do you see the killings as justified?

j-mac

You are dealing with die-hard, hardcore people who will kill themselves to kill americans.

Grant · Mar 4, 2012

RDS said:
You are dealing with die-hard, hardcore people who will kill themselves to kill americans.

When this happens again, and the policies of Barrack Obama have insured that it will, then a bomb of sufficient magnitude should be released on the government headquarters of wherever the source of the attack might be. Thus if Iran gets out of line, bomb the government buildings in Tehran.

Continue this program until there is a strong change in attitude concerning any American and Anti Western sentiments. That will win their hearts and minds much more quickly than BHO's apology tours.

Arcana XV · Mar 4, 2012

Wiseone said:
Here's the facts of the matter. Regardless of how you feel over burning a Koran, in the US or Afghanistan, the Afghanis are going to get pretty damn upset about it and it, as seen, will result in American Soldiers being killed. Therefore you're opinion on Koran burning is entirely irrelevant to the situation, you can be entirely against it, or entirely for it, to the Afghanis the ones who potentially will kill US Soldiers your opinion does not matter. So lets stop pretending that anyone's opinion on Koran burning does matter, what matters if the Afghan's opinions on it and what they will do if it occurs.

Put your pride aside, its irrelevant, unnecessary, and frankly if decisions were made off what would and wouldn't defend your pride it would get people killed. Is your pride so valuable?

I understand your reasoning completely and must reluctantly admit that you're absolutely right. In the context of Afghanistan, it really doesn't matter how many times we dissect the merits of Western-style freedom of speech and expression. The sad fact remains that to Afghans the concept is utterly meaningless. They have, still are and will continue to kill over what we consider one of the most basic rights. That's the unquestionable reality. Military leaders make decisions over there every day based on this reality.

As for your question on whether or not our pride is so valuable, I don't think it's a question of pride so much as a question of basic principles and core values. Even though we know how some cultures will react to certain book burnings, intentional or not, we should not forget our principles and what we see as basic rights. Whenever we witness these rights being completely torn to shreds by another culture, we have an obligation to forcefully stand up for what we believe in. So, even though I basically agree with you that it will not change anything in places like Afghanistan, even though I understand the need Obama felt to apologize for a mistake, I don't think the average person should silence their outrage. It most certainly will not save any soldiers' lives and may in fact put them in even more danger, but no one ever said freedom came at no cost.

Arcana XV · Mar 4, 2012

Grant said:
When this happens again, and the policies of Barrack Obama have insured that it will, then a bomb of sufficient magnitude should be released on the government headquarters of wherever the source of the attack might be. Thus if Iran gets out of line, bomb the government buildings in Tehran.

Continue this program until there is a strong change in attitude concerning any American and Anti Western sentiments. That will win their hearts and minds much more quickly than BHO's apology tours.

Honestly, Grant, I really don't think anything will ever win their hearts and minds at this point. Not apologies and most certainly not repeated and systematic bombings. You'd only be adding to the endless list of grievances that region holds against the West and possibly escalating the conflict to WWIII proportions. I'm not sure there is any solution other than to let history take its course.

j-mac · Mar 4, 2012

Arcana XV said:
Honestly, Grant, I really don't think anything will ever win their hearts and minds at this point. Not apologies and most certainly not repeated and systematic bombings. You'd only be adding to the endless list of grievances that region holds against the West and possibly escalating the conflict to WWIII proportions. I'm not sure there is any solution other than to let history take its course.

What course would you see taking place should we just throw our hands up in the air, and give up on the region?

j-mac

Arcana XV · Mar 4, 2012

j-mac said:
What course would you see taking place should we just throw our hands up in the air, and give up on the region?

j-mac

Exactly the same. Like I said, nothing will change anything at this point. I have nothing against intervening in the region when it's necessary and justified, but we have to know that we're not making the world any safer by doing so. Not that the world ever was a safe place, but you know what I mean.

Gardener · Mar 4, 2012

j-mac said:
What course would you see taking place should we just throw our hands up in the air, and give up on the region?

j-mac

We should give up any aspirations that we could turn these extraordinarily primitive people into a functioning democracy based upon humanist principles. These are a severely inbred people where marrying close family members is the norm, and where loyalties follow blood ties rather than political or philosophical.

There is simply no way to win the hearts and minds of those whose sense of loyalty is formed by blood.

j-mac · Mar 4, 2012

Arcana XV said:
Exactly the same. Like I said, nothing will change anything at this point. I have nothing against intervening in the region when it's necessary and justified, but we have to know that we're not making the world any safer by doing so. Not that the world ever was a safe place, but you know what I mean.

No, the world is not a very safe place, and WE play a role in protecting what safety exists, or at least I'd like to believe so. Can you imagine a world where the US said 'hey, not our problem'? Who do you think would fill that void, and would we be safer, or less safe today?

j-mac

Arcana XV · Mar 4, 2012

j-mac said:
No, the world is not a very safe place, and WE play a role in protecting what safety exists, or at least I'd like to believe so. Can you imagine a world where the US said 'hey, not our problem'? Who do you think would fill that void, and would we be safer, or less safe today?

j-mac

I don't have a crystal ball, sorry. That would have me imagine a world where the US is not the sole military super-power. Historically, those with the strongest military have pretty much ruled the world. Like it or not, that is the fate of the United States at this point in history and there is no escaping that role. I honestly can't imagine the US ever saying "we're out, sort your damn selves out." So, I would say whichever country would hold that position if the US had not risen to the top would be filling your shoes.

Grant · Mar 4, 2012

Arcana XV said:
Honestly, Grant, I really don't think anything will ever win their hearts and minds at this point. Not apologies and most certainly not repeated and systematic bombings. You'd only be adding to the endless list of grievances that region holds against the West and possibly escalating the conflict to WWIII proportions. I'm not sure there is any solution other than to let history take its course.

I'm not the least bit interested in their hearts and minds at all, Arcana. All that interests me is that they cut down on their violence against Gays, Women, people of other faiths and, generally, those living in the west. Appealing to their intellectual side, or that there is a light bulb that will suddenly come on in their fanatical little minds, is a laughable response,

How can there be WW!! proportions when the aggressors are one step away from their caves? The only thing that gives them sustenance and confidence is our weak kneed lack of a serious response.

At least they are smart enough to see how weak we are while we're still conning ourselves that we're strong.

Good to see you!

Grant · Mar 4, 2012

Arcana XV said:
Exactly the same. Like I said, nothing will change anything at this point. I have nothing against intervening in the region when it's necessary and justified, but we have to know that we're rategy, if it is one, is to allow thme to continue with theirnot making the world any safer by doing so. Not that the world ever was a safe place, but you know what I mean.

But using that strategy suggests that we are the aggressors and we control the future, when that is not the case at all. You are simply giving the initiative to them and. like Afghanistan and the Middle East now, they will take it.

Arcana XV · Mar 4, 2012

Grant said:
I'm not the least bit interested in their hearts and minds at all, Arcana. All that interests me is that they cut down on their violence against Gays, Women, people of other faiths and, generally, those living in the west. Appealing to their intellectual side, or that there is a light bulb that will suddenly come on in their fanatical little minds, is a laughable response,

You can't bomb them into the 21st century. No matter what you do, their culture will win out. Someone said that culture is fate. It really is. There's no escaping it. Bombing their government buildings, as you suggest, will have no effect whatsoever. They won't magically start respecting women's rights or stop executing gays.

How can there be WW!! proportions when the aggressors are one step away from their caves? The only thing that gives them sustenance and confidence is our weak kneed lack of a serious response.

Some of those countries have powerful allies. I prefer a strategy that makes a potential world war least likely.

Good to see you!

You too.

Grant · Mar 4, 2012

Arcana XV said:
I don't have a crystal ball, sorry. That would have me imagine a world where the US is not the sole military super-power. Historically, those with the strongest military have pretty much ruled the world. Like it or not, that is the fate of the United States at this point in history and there is no escaping that role. I honestly can't imagine the US ever saying "we're out, sort your damn selves out." So, I would say whichever country would hold that position if the US had not risen to the top would be filling your shoes.

But the United States is no longer the strongest power and their enemies know that. Certainly they have the most weapons and the largest armies but they are weak as a nation.

They went to a phony war with Libya and the big deal was that nobody got hurt! What army can possibly go to battle with that as their main objective? It's a parody.

Arcana XV · Mar 4, 2012

Grant said:
But using that strategy suggests that we are the aggressors and we control the future, when that is not the case at all. You are simply giving the initiative to them and. like Afghanistan and the Middle East now, they will take it.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. No one controls the future, not the aggressors, nor the ones being attacked. The only ones who control the future are the winners of history. We don't know who's going to win this fight yet. We're still right in the middle of it.

Arcana XV · Mar 4, 2012

Grant said:
But the United States is no longer the strongest power and their enemies know that. Certainly they have the most weapons and the largest armies but they are weak as a nation.

They went to a phony war with Libya and the big deal was that nobody got hurt! What army can possibly go to battle with that as their main objective? It's a parody.

I disagree. They still are the strongest military power. If a world war breaks out, they still stand the best chance of victory, with or without their allies. As for Lybia, that wasn't really a war. It was merely providing assistance to the Lybian rebels on the ground.

Grant · Mar 4, 2012

Arcana XV said:
Arcana XV said:

You can't bomb them into the 21st century. No matter what you do, their culture will win out. Someone said that culture is fate. It really is. There's no escaping it. Bombing their government buildings, as you suggest, will have no effect whatsoever. They won't magically start respecting women's rights or stop executing gays.

Click to expand...

Their advantage is a strong belief system accompanied by a strong social structure, an apparent willingness to carry out any inhumane and bloodthirsty crime against innocents anywhere, and to protest at any slight real or perceived. This is already frightening us into appeasement.

Our advantage is advanced weaponry and we are failing to use it. We do not have a fall back system.

Maybe bombing their leadership on a grander scale won't work, but the drones seemed to have some value for a while. I'd say its worth a try.

Some of those countries have powerful allies. I prefer a strategy that makes a potential world war least likely.

Click to expand...

The US has, or had, powerful Allies also. Why are they more powerful than us?

A world war would be extremely unlikely if we seriously set out to win it.

Grant · Mar 4, 2012

Arcana XV said:
I disagree. They still are the strongest military power. If a world war breaks out, they still stand the best chance of victory, with or without their allies. As for Lybia, that wasn't really a war. It was merely providing assistance to the Lybian rebels on the ground.

The Americans lost in Iraq, Egypt, Libya, and will shortly lose the entire Middle East, though much depeds on Israel. They have lost in Afghanistan.

They cannot win wars and don't even plan to. Instead they want people to like them, with this hearts and minds craziness being their most obvious craziness.

By the way, these "Libyan rebels", like the Egyptian rebels" are really going to bite our asses.

Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

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