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Thread: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

  1. #351
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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormageddon View Post
    Once again the offer to hand him over to a third nation was disingenuous which is proven conclusively by the fact that their demand was that we provide evidence of Bin Laden's guilt and that evidence had long been provided and they still refused to hand him over.



    Because he was forced to flee Afghanistan.



    The Taliban were co-conspirators in the 9-11 attacks I consider them as guilty as AQ which was part and parcel to the Taliban government and military.



    We crushed the central leadership in Afghanistan and forced them to flee into the borderlands.




    The NIST report stated that they would be emboldened to continue their Jihad elsewhere should the U.S. fail in Iraq but would cause the inverse should the opposite occur, and the U.S. succeeded in Iraq.

    The Iraq conflict has become the “cause celebre” for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement. Should jihadists leaving Iraq perceive themselves to have failed we judge fewer fighters will be inspired to carry on the fight.

    We assess that the Iraq jihad is shaping a new generation of terrorist leaders and operatives; perceived jihadist success there would inspire more fighters to continue the struggle elsewhere.

    United States-led counterterrorism efforts have seriously damaged the leadership of al-Qa’ida and disrupted it’s operations.

    We assess that the global jihadist movement is decentralized, lacks a coherent global strategy, and is becoming more diffuse.
    I know, you hold that opinion, but you may well be wrong. With the right voice, carrot and stick, he may well have been given to a thrid party. Or we could have gone in on 9/12 and just gotten him and left. Again, the point is we did the mostexpensive and reckless option.

    And him fleeing Afghanistan, forced or not, doesn't change anything I said. The fact is it took us nearly a decade, and our invasion did not accomplish the job. Nor does crushing the leadership in Afghanistan mean a thing at all.

    I find part of what you quote as funny. A group that started out decenteralixed is now decentralized. Now that's progress. But let me ask, can you show meassurable decrease in terrorism?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #352
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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Spare my feelings, please. You don''t recall a recent conversation we had where i was critical of the United States because they can't govern their borders or balance a budget?



    LOL!!
    You miss the point. It isn't you being critical, it is you overreacting to every hint at criticism.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I know, you hold that opinion, but you may well be wrong.
    It's not an opinion, it's a cold hard fact that the Taliban was provided with evidence of Bin Laden's guilt and they still refused to hand him over so the assertion that they offered to hand him over to a third country if given evidence of his guilty is fallacious.

    With the right voice, carrot and stick, he may well have been given to a thrid party. Or we could have gone in on 9/12 and just gotten him and left. Again, the point is we did the mostexpensive and reckless option.
    So do you admit that the assertion that the Taliban was willing to hand him over if we provided evidence of his guilt is false?

    And him fleeing Afghanistan, forced or not, doesn't change anything I said. The fact is it took us nearly a decade, and our invasion did not accomplish the job. Nor does crushing the leadership in Afghanistan mean a thing at all.
    Without the invasion of Afghanistan we would have never been able to kill him in Pakistan.

    I find part of what you quote as funny. A group that started out decenteralixed is now decentralized.
    AQ had a central leadership with command and control over their subsidiaries, that no longer exists.

    Now that's progress. But let me ask, can you show meassurable decrease in terrorism?
    There have been 0 terrorist attacks planned in, recruited in, trained in, and launched from Afghanistan since we ousted the Taliban.

  4. #354
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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormageddon View Post
    It's not an opinion, it's a cold hard fact that the Taliban was provided with evidence of Bin Laden's guilt and they still refused to hand him over so the assertion that they offered to hand him over to a third country if given evidence of his guilty is fallacious.



    So do you admit that the assertion that the Taliban was willing to hand him over if we provided evidence of his guilt is false?



    Without the invasion of Afghanistan we would have never been able to kill him in Pakistan.



    AQ had a central leadership with command and control over their subsidiaries, that no longer exists.



    There have been 0 terrorist attacks planned in, recruited in, trained in, and launched from Afghanistan since we ousted the Taliban.
    You mistakenly overstate the strenght of our evidence and are still skipping around the point. Nor was it my claim that the taliban said they would turn him over with evidence. Does anyone read carefully? Seriously?

    Nor is it true that we need to invade AND occupy aAfgahnistan to OBL. That simply isn't true. Remember, many state clearly Clinton could have done it in the past without invading.

    And no, Al Qaeda has always been a organization that works without a head, they are by definition not centralized. It was reported OBL himself was surprised by 9/11. The recuritment and efforts have not only continued with our actions, but increased.

    And you are wrong concerning Afghansitan, not that they need Afghanistan As none were lanuched from there before we invaded, but as we are there, and we are being killed, their goal is fully under way. Remember, OBL wanted us clser as it is easier to kill us there, and easier to bleed us, and easier to show us what he claimed. From a pragmatic POV, he got what he wanted. And he got it for a solid decade. better than he could have hoped for.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post

    It was reported OBL himself was surprised by 9/11.
    Do you have a link to that report?

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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You mistakenly overstate the strenght of our evidence
    And now you are just lying. We provided courtroom testimony and captured satellite phone transmissions proving conclusively his guilt. This was enough to convince the ENTIRE UNSC!

    and are still skipping around the point. Nor was it my claim that the taliban said they would turn him over with evidence. Does anyone read carefully? Seriously?
    Your claim is that they were trying to negotiate, the actual negotiations which took place in real life were the Taliban saying that they would turn him over provided evidence of his guilt, that evidence had long been provided to them so it is a proven fact that they had no intention of handing him over.

    Nor is it true that we need to invade AND occupy aAfgahnistan to OBL. That simply isn't true. Remember, many state clearly Clinton could have done it in the past without invading.
    It took us ten years to track him down and kill him even with boots on the ground and the only reason why Clinton was able to "do it" is because the Sudanese government offered to hand him over, which is something that the Taliban refused to do. Regardless, even if we were able to track down OBL without human intelligence on the ground in the area this still would not have don anything to oust the terror training camps in Afghanistan.

    And no, Al Qaeda has always been a organization that works without a head, they are by definition not centralized. It was reported OBL himself was surprised by 9/11.
    lol, no he was not he was involved in the planning stages when KSM brought the adapted Bojinka plan to him.

    The recuritment and efforts have not only continued with our actions, but increased.
    AQ may be a franchise organization but prior to the war in Afghanistan they were still incorporated in Afghanistan and taking their ques and funding from their board of directors there.

    And you are wrong concerning Afghansitan, not that they need Afghanistan As none were lanuched from there before we invaded, but as we are there, and we are being killed, their goal is fully under way. Remember, OBL wanted us clser as it is easier to kill us there, and easier to bleed us, and easier to show us what he claimed. From a pragmatic POV, he got what he wanted. And he got it for a solid decade. better than he could have hoped for.
    Ya OBL misjudged our resolve and look at him now.

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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You miss the point. It isn't you being critical, it is you overreacting to every hint at criticism.
    Can't you just get on with the debates rather than offering up your goofy personal opinions? We're here for the debate, nothing more.

  8. #358
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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It wouldn't have a made a bit of difference. 9/11 would have still happened. I believe they comment on this in 9/11 commission report. The point is, we choose war of other options.

    Yeah, what were the other options? Being Islam's bitch?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yeah, what were the other options? Being Islam's bitch?


    j-mac
    You are so silly j. You're the poster boy for Bush's either with us or against sound bite. You always only see two options. Have you ever heard of the either or fallacy? Might want to look that one up.


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Can't you just get on with the debates rather than offering up your goofy personal opinions? We're here for the debate, nothing more.
    Just memory. Were you around then? Did you follow any of it?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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