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Thread: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So you have it all figured out do you? Well, let's see...
    Our weakness is only a symptom of a President that doesn't believe that America is exceptional. A President that came into office with an inner hope to take America down a couple of notches. A President that was not qualified to be President, and is possibly not really pulling the strings of the office. As a country in electing Obama? You're damned right we did. Now we are going to pay if we can't undo the damage he has put in place.

    Iraq is going to be the least of our problems. Think of the chaos Obama unleashed with allowing the dominos of the ME to tumble in favor of catch phrase feel goodism.
    Sure we do...They either fall to strong men dictators, or they fail. That is why we are a republic.



    The real weakness is encapsulated in progressivism. It is a failing pipe dream. My confusion is in how supposedly smart men can be so easily duped, and led by liars, and con men like our current President.

    j-mac
    I agree with your summing up but do the American people have what it takes to change direction sharply enough to get back to where they were? I rather think its too late.

    The American people, once rightly suspicious of big government, has largely become dependent on it. The rapid rise in rules and regulations and the increased power in the bureaucracy and its unions will ensure that it stays that way. I don''t see any way the ordinary American taxpayer can fight back, even if they did get rid of the dangerously ignorant Barrack Obama.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I agree with your summing up but do the American people have what it takes to change direction sharply enough to get back to where they were? I rather think its too late.

    That's a good question, but I don't think it is all lost yet. If Obama, and the congress is allowed to mire in the fist of this progressive destruction for another term, then maybe. But I prefer to be optimistic.

    The American people, once rightly suspicious of big government, has largely become dependent on it.
    Nah, I don't think the suspicion has ceased, just lulled a bit as we see whom is going to step forward. The dependency can be turned around as well. Think of it as a long vacation....In my working life I am lucky if I take my vacation at all, maybe a week in the summer. When in the Army we used to get up to 30 days leave at a time. I remember thinking that was cool. But after about two weeks, I found myself wanting to get back....Same thing here in a way.

    The rapid rise in rules and regulations and the increased power in the bureaucracy and its unions will ensure that it stays that way.
    I agree. Friday I got a phone call to participate in a tele town hall with Lindsey Graham, and although I have had my problems with his stances on things, When I asked him the question of regulation that you bring up here, he was animated, and tone wise angry that the libs are pulling this crap. What they can do I don't know, but I got the feeling that it was not going to be tolerated.

    I don''t see any way the ordinary American taxpayer can fight back, even if they did get rid of the dangerously ignorant Barrack Obama.
    That's why we can't get myopic. We need the house, and senate as well.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    The people are sick of being oppressed. It would diffuse the already polarized and highly tense political atmosphere if the television media/news would stop lying to the people and tell them the truth instead of propagandizing them 24-7.

    The constant terror scares, the false fears about this "marxist" plot, that "communist," targeting Assange for just releasing confidential files, the overtly oppressive censorship, not to mention the extremely offensive rhetoric coming from the mouths of govmnt officials, Feds or otherwise, make America appear and feel like a dictatorship.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Oh for goodness sake. For a poster with a screen name such as yours, you sure are not displaying much with this entry my friend.

    You don't think that discussing the events, or offering our opinion matters, and to that you are right, our little space here in the vastness of the internet is but a spec in the overall vastness of the net. But, we are in here, on an opinion site mind you, offering our opinions and discussing the situation.

    You however, wasted alot of space here to basically post on an opinion site, about how others opinions are useless and irrelevant, yet you offer your opinion of them being justified in killing Americans over the inadvertent burning of a book as if IT IS relevant.

    Good job, at showing everyone how inflated your own ego is.
    I'm talking from the perspective of what matters on the ground for the Soldiers and the mission. If you're talking outside of that perspective, as in just a debate or discussion, that's fine but that's not what I was driving at. What motivated my post was seeing a lot of the anger and pride motivating some people to think our Soldiers or our mission should show a total disregard for what the Afghans think, however that will clearly get people killed. So what matters to the Soldiers and Mission isn't our opinion, if I was a commander in Afghanistan I would be smart enough to know that my opinion of the Koran is entirely irrelevant to what matters, so long as I treat it with respect my opinion is meaningless.

    For example when looking at this scenario I see that if a Koran is burned in Afghanistan then some Afghans will get violent and some Soldiers will be killed in direct retaliation. To me, the way to avoid these deaths isn't to tell the Afghans "tough ****" its to avoid disrespecting Islam whenever possible. Of course some of the individuals who attacked our Soldiers may have done so anyway without this event, however it's obvious what happened didn't help the situation so whether it encouraged violence, or support for causes against our mission, its better to avoid letting it happen again.

    Of course that's my opinion, on the opinion site.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It seems also in this scenario you advance the idea that American opinion doesn't matter, that they are just onlookers in all of this and will be murdered if the Afghanis are offended and get the opportunity to murder them. Americans, of course, remain secure in the knowledge that they are a superior culture, will remain unoffended, and let their soldiers die rather than respond in any meaningful way.

    What has brought about this change in national character that Americans will allow themselves to be killed and then blame the killings on themselves? That has been going on at since 9/11 at least, despite the current President making apology tours and blaming America for the world's problems, past and the present.

    All the modern weaponry in the world is meaningless without courage, without standing up to those who would do you harm, and doing it to them first. Americans are assisting in deposing leaders who have managed to keep a lid on much of the ignorance-fueled hatreds built up over centuries and are now allowing it, and even encouraging it, to be released.

    This current President, still being supported by a generation made ignorant by an American educational system run amuck, is making the world a far more dangerous place, and many more people will die as a consequence. The United States should just pull out of everywhere and let each country fend for itself. The Americans have become unreliable and thus more dangerous than they would be just sitting on their hands at home.

    They'll grope each other at airports but believe Muslims with guns are no security risk at all. It doesn't get much dumber than this.
    You've gone way off topic and into straw man territory

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    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So you have it all figured out do you? Well, let's see...



    Our weakness is only a symptom of a President that doesn't believe that America is exceptional. A President that came into office with an inner hope to take America down a couple of notches. A President that was not qualified to be President, and is possibly not really pulling the strings of the office.



    As a country in electing Obama? You're damned right we did. Now we are going to pay if we can't undo the damage he has put in place.



    Iraq is going to be the least of our problems. Think of the chaos Obama unleashed with allowing the dominos of the ME to tumble in favor of catch phrase feel goodism.



    Sure we do...They either fall to strong men dictators, or they fail. That is why we are a republic.



    The real weakness is encapsulated in progressivism. It is a failing pipe dream.



    My confusion is in how supposedly smart men can be so easily duped, and led by liars, and con men like our current President.

    j-mac
    You are far to partisan mate

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That's a good question, but I don't think it is all lost yet. If Obama, and the congress is allowed to mire in the fist of this progressive destruction for another term, then maybe. But I prefer to be optimistic.
    I prefer to be optimistic also and often look to the dumping of Jimmy Carter for inspiration, but a lot is based on an if. This wasn't always the case with America, once the most optimistic nation in the world.


    Nah, I don't think the suspicion has ceased, just lulled a bit as we see whom is going to step forward. The dependency can be turned around as well. Think of it as a long vacation....In my working life I am lucky if I take my vacation at all, maybe a week in the summer. When in the Army we used to get up to 30 days leave at a time. I remember thinking that was cool. But after about two weeks, I found myself wanting to get back....Same thing here in a way.
    But you, as I, know the America that was, the pride in being an American and the genuine feel of what that meant.. Now many Americans are asking what their country can do for them and Obama is right there to give them the answer, as defined by big government. And each generation will lose something and not even know its gone.
    I agree. Friday I got a phone call to participate in a tele town hall with Lindsey Graham, and although I have had my problems with his stances on things, When I asked him the question of regulation that you bring up here, he was animated, and tone wise angry that the libs are pulling this crap. What they can do I don't know, but I got the feeling that it was not going to be tolerated.
    I certainly hope you're right, and the last elections with the Tea Party supported candidates doing so well certainly support the idea that something can be done
    .

    That's why we can't get myopic. We need the house, and senate as well.
    Yes, absolutely.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I read what wrong?

    But we agree that America is weak, and excuses and apologies only heighten that reality.

    The question Americans should be asking themselves is how they might be strong again, but as long as they continue to debate condoms, an issue more relevant to the 1950's, and focus on celebrities while ignoring the larger issues, their rapid slide will continue.

    I see no stopping the American fall from grace. Do you?
    No we don't agree. I used the word IF for a reason.

    let me ask you, if you apologize for your actions to your wife, does that make you weak? Your neighbor? Your boss? That work who you don't like and doesn't like you? The truth is, being honest and stating your mistakes clearly is a strength. Those who can't do that are weak.

    And the condom stuff was a nice diversion. You learn for the media well. We are also strong enough, and capable enough to deal with more than one issue at a time. The fact is both wars were ill-conceived, especially Iraq. And Iraq was reckless and a loser for us from conception.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Apologies have no bearing really. Better to speed up the withdrawal.

    Afghanistan: Bomb Near U.S. Base Kills 3

    (KABUL, Afghanistan) — A suicide bomber killed at least two civilians and wounded four others in an attack near an American military base outside Kabul, police said, the latest violence linked to burning of Qurans at the base.

    Read more: Afghanistan: Bomb Near U.S. Base Kills 3 - TIME

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    Apologies have no bearing really......
    Exactly!

    No amount of apologies will do.Is it necessary to adopt that kind of shocking violence? One can not imagine mere human beings concocting this terrible deeds!

    But unfortunately in those parts of the world, the pull is always towards insanity, it seems!

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No we don't agree. I used the word IF for a reason.

    let me ask you, if you apologize for your actions to your wife, does that make you weak? Your neighbor? Your boss? That work who you don't like and doesn't like you? The truth is, being honest and stating your mistakes clearly is a strength. Those who can't do that are weak.

    So which role in your hypothetical does Obama play and how do his world apology tours effect the American people and that of his predecessors? And as a result of these apologies is it your contention that America is now stronger and more respected?
    And the condom stuff was a nice diversion. You learn for the media well. We are also strong enough, and capable enough to deal with more than one issue at a time.
    That doesn't appear to be the case. You cannot do everyday things like govern your borders or balance a budget while your elected reps are debating contraceptives and Christianity. Another world apology tour might be in order to further trivialize the former world super power to a of state of insignificance.

    The fact is both wars were ill-conceived, especially Iraq. And Iraq was reckless and a loser for us from conception.
    Ever since WWII conflicts have not gone well for the United States. You no longer play to win, and everyone knows it. Thats why the USA has most recently been defeated by a ragtag group of camel chasers. If you had learned to treat your enemies the way you treat each other then you might have enjoyed some success in these misadventures.

    You should ask to join BHO on his next World Apology Tour and explain again what poor planners you are, that you cannot think ahead and so on. Much of the world is ready for another laugh at America's expense.
    Last edited by Grant; 03-05-12 at 06:43 PM.

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