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Thread: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post

    well he's not exactly begging is he, the guy has to apologise its called being a statesmen.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Didn't they once blow up the Buddha statues of Bamiyan despite world wide plea which they didn't give a damn? Did any muslims anywhere even apologize for it? Did even one buddhist anywhere go out to the street in angry protest? Apparently, these people are savage zombies to their cultish way of life that will never amount to anything except bloodshed as long as they continue to practice their 7th century blood rituals. They understand only violence and bloodshed, not reason.
    Last edited by dolphinocean; 02-23-12 at 04:42 PM.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    Didn't they once blow up the Buddha statues of Bamiyan despite world wide plea which they didn't give a damn? Did any muslims anywhere even apologize for it? Did even one buddhist anywhere go out to the street in angry protest? Apparently, these people are savage zombies to their cultish way of life that will never amount to anything except bloodshed as long as they continue to practice their 7th century blood rituals. They understand only violence and bloodshed, not reason.
    Well there's no doubt that there's freaks and idiots in the world. But that doesn't mean we have to act like them. I kinda like that we're above all that.
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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    I live in a country surrounded by muslims just like Israel and one of them has the world's largest muslim population. Just live and let live for their sake.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    The commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force explained that the materials were gathered for disposal and were inadvertently given to troops for burning. Perhaps it was actually a genuine mistake made by the troops who were responsible for garbage disposal at Bagram Airfield and there was no intent to insult the Afghans and their religion at all.

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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I understand your sentiment, but really, when you invade a country, are not really fighting their army, but their people, your the one whose made the mistake. Much like with VN, while you can make a leader surrender, or an army quit, a people tends to resist much longer. Democracies are not designed to be able to occupy long term.

    As for Iraq, well, I don't really see the difference you do. But what happens to both will and always has depended on what they do, not us.
    Going into Afghanistan wasn't a mistake. We had to do that. The actions post invasion are the mistake. In contrast, Iraq was a mistake. The difference is, what we did post invasion there was better. We didn't get a half-hearted surge like Obama gave Afghanistan. The ROE were far more relaxed, the people actually gave a crap about their own country, and we had a lot more autonomy on the ground. We agree that the people have to care about their country and want change. Afghanistan does neither. Iraqis did care and still do. When news that the Saudi's (a Sunni gov't) are establishing an embassy in Baghdad comes out, I'd say that's an indicator that things are going good. Sure, they still have attacks from time to time. They still have protests as well. Do we not have a friggin Occupy protest in the every city with a population over 10? Do they not clash with police in Oakland or New York? I believe the Iraqis are doing well and will continue too.
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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    This is just the same group of rabble always out there looking to burn an American flag at the drop of a hat; of course the taliban will encourage such behavior to achieve their aims.

    Fact is, yes, these were burned by mistake, so now you're going to see the usual overzealous ginned-up reaction. Does anybody wailing in the streets stop to consider the fact that they were already desecrated to begin with? That they'd been scribbled in to pass messages on the sly?

    You always see this double standard. The insurgent groups in-country violate such religious precepts everyday -- desecrate korans to pass intelligence, set up ambushes with hasty retreats into a mosque (often with fortified positions or weapons caches within them) -- but no one reports that activity. Its a common tactic that usually goes unreported -- unless of course it succeeds to blow up in our faces.

    I know we're held to a higher standard, and we have to fight our away all the political an sensitivity pitfalls -- You won't see me condemning anyone for this mistake, and I will condemn the protestors getting violent over the issue. Its a BS ploy when it gets to this point, the favorite tactic of supposed "zealots" who will willing violate their own tenets to realize their war aims, but stir up a ruckus when the US provides even the smallest opportunity.
    Last edited by other; 02-23-12 at 07:05 PM.

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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Going into Afghanistan wasn't a mistake. We had to do that. The actions post invasion are the mistake. In contrast, Iraq was a mistake. The difference is, what we did post invasion there was better. We didn't get a half-hearted surge like Obama gave Afghanistan. The ROE were far more relaxed, the people actually gave a crap about their own country, and we had a lot more autonomy on the ground. We agree that the people have to care about their country and want change. Afghanistan does neither. Iraqis did care and still do. When news that the Saudi's (a Sunni gov't) are establishing an embassy in Baghdad comes out, I'd say that's an indicator that things are going good. Sure, they still have attacks from time to time. They still have protests as well. Do we not have a friggin Occupy protest in the every city with a population over 10? Do they not clash with police in Oakland or New York? I believe the Iraqis are doing well and will continue too.

    Not sure we had to. I remember an argument by an EX CIA agent, Scheuer?, who argued we should have done what we actually ended up doing concerning OBL. Go in on 9/12, take him out, and go home. There would have been an uproar, but it would have been over, the message sent, and we would not be nation building or encouraging our enemies.

    Still, most understood Afghanistan. It was Iraq where we, or Bush if you prefer, lost our minds.

    But the point you responded to was that Afghanistan is up to the afghan people and not the US. It will always be the case.

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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    the majority of the population have a 7th century tribal mindset
    they view us as invaders and occupiers, just as they did the russians a generation ago
    those who want to instigate trouble among the illiterate moslem masses only have to fabricate a credible premise
    in this case it was the burning of the korans
    and we aided their effort
    the act of writing in the korans by the prisoners is a prohibited act of desecration according to their religion. but we allowed that fact to be conveniently lost by our indifferent actions to dispose of them
    why would the same ignorant population that already resents our presence not also be willing to believe that the same troops who were found to have pissed on their dead brethrens' corpses would not also intentionally burn the holy book of a religion they do not subscribe to
    so much for hearts and minds

    here's more:
    Half a million Afghans displaced by war have been left homeless and struggling to survive because of government and international neglect, Amnesty International said Thursday.

    Around 400 people join makeshift shelters around the country every day, Amnesty said in a report entitled “Fleeing war, finding misery”, based on three years of research.

    The Afghan government estimates that more than 40 people froze to death this winter, the harshest in 15 years, with at least 28 children dying in camps around Kabul. ...
    War and neglect leaves 500,000 Afghans homeless: Amnesty | The Raw Story

    if the roles were reversed and we were being occupied by an afghani military that indicated by their actions they disrespected our culture and our religion, would we expect our people to not respond to what were indicated to be egregious acts against our people and our religion
    knowing my area's history tells me that it was the ill considered actions of the brits that caused the native population to mobilize in opposition during the revolution. we were motivated by our repulsion of their actions to turn them - and those who were allied with them - from our soil. however they may be instigated by the taliban, this response by the afghanistan people should come as no surpise

    anyone know what the goal post is, what must first be accomplished, before we can return our troops from that G-d forsaken land?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not sure we had to. I remember an argument by an EX CIA agent, Scheuer?, who argued we should have done what we actually ended up doing concerning OBL. Go in on 9/12, take him out, and go home. There would have been an uproar, but it would have been over, the message sent, and we would not be nation building or encouraging our enemies.

    Still, most understood Afghanistan. It was Iraq where we, or Bush if you prefer, lost our minds.

    But the point you responded to was that Afghanistan is up to the afghan people and not the US. It will always be the case.
    The initial entry into Afghanistan was MASTERFUL. If you've never read books on that, I suggest you do. If anything for the entertainment value. It makes a great read. The Army SF guys I have worked with say that operation was an ODA's wet dream. It was exactly what they train for and exist for. I applaud Bush for allowing that type of war to happen. The follow up is what screwed it up.
    I agree, Iraq was a mistake to go into. I have shifted my views a little on it. I think I was blinded by how well we did while we were there and confused that with the reason we went to begin with. We didn't go for the right reasons, I will agree. However, the way we fought it was well done. It hurt initially in '04-'06. We learned our lessons and realized that we couldn't go into a COIN mindset until we beat the bad guys. That's the whole premise of COIN. You can't shift to it before the area is secure. You have to have a safe environment to let groups like medical teams, construction teams, and agricultural teams come in. That's the mistake we're making in Afghanistan. Instead of taking it slow, like in Iraq. We are trying to force Iraq to happen in Afghanistan, if that makes sense. It can't be forced and its a different country.
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