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Thread: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

  1. #101
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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    I like to hear especially from those who defended the Marines who urinated on dead bodies in Afghanistan.

    afghanistan_01 | Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration | Global Spin | TIME.com
    It would be nice if they tried to put out the fires using the same technique used to water the dead terrorists. By the way it that application it is not "urinating" on them is is rather, "pissing" on them. Bless our troops.
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Look Connery, I like you and your posts are usually insightful, but you're going to have to do better than "this source is wrong because it's wrong."
    That is not my position at all. The manual is perfect for the audience it is directed to. The average poster is simply not a member of that audience and to hold them to the standard of "leaders and planners at the battalion level and above" is an inappropriate and a faulty application of that treatise.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    See, the thing is it doesn't matter at all WHY we did this or not, or whether there was ill intent or not.. Unfortunately, what matters is perception. I don't disagree with anything you've posted here, but most of it is irrelevant.

    These protesters may be crazy zealots, but calling them out for it doesn't change the fact that we are fighting a war in a country filled with such zealots with a tribal mentality. You can call them out for their irrationality all you want but the fact of the matter is calling them out for their irrationality doesn't change the fact that WE are trying to fight a war on THEIR soil, and we can't change their culture or way of thinking with a snap of the finger.

    It is incumbent upon our forces to adapt their practices accordingly; because telling these people "oh, we're sorry, we didn't mean to offend, you're not being a true Muslim, now please get over it" doesn't help you win the war, even if it is valid criticism.

    A mistake was made plain and simple. This is not an intentional act directed at these people or their beliefs. Moreover, should they wish for us to respect their beliefs they should practice what they preach. The US has attempted to make amends, in response these people rioted and killed. No one is trying to change these people, their culture, their beleif system that much has been clear regarding this incident.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Its so awesome to see so many people tripping over themselves to respect the delicate sensitivities of religious people and supporting their ideologies. I'm sure that it is a consistent position...you know...respecting people of faith and their beliefs and ideologies...

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    See, the thing is it doesn't matter at all WHY we did this or not, or whether there was ill intent or not.. Unfortunately, what matters is perception. I don't disagree with anything you've posted here, but most of it is irrelevant.

    These protesters may be crazy zealots, but calling them out for it doesn't change the fact that we are fighting a war in a country filled with such zealots with a tribal mentality. You can call them out for their irrationality all you want but the fact of the matter is calling them out for their irrationality doesn't change the fact that WE are trying to fight a war on THEIR soil, and we can't change their culture or way of thinking with a snap of the finger.

    It is incumbent upon our forces to adapt their practices accordingly; because telling these people "oh, we're sorry, we didn't mean to offend, you're not being a true Muslim, now please get over it" doesn't help you win the war, even if it is valid criticism.
    Exactly. I'm not sure why people can't see that nearly everything is dependent on what your mission is. If the mission is to win hearts and minds, then the reason doesn't matter. The harm is done.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    These people know nothing about democracy and don't care about it. Mostly they care about their particular tribe and making sure that they have more goats than the next guy. The lives lost in Afghanistan were wasted, just like the lives in Vietnam. Get them out now and to hell with the entire country. Let them eat their Korans for all I care.
    Shouldn't have invaded either country to begin with. It was hubris to think we can recreate people in our image.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    I know.

    What a bunch of lillies of the valley ..... almost make you want to puke
    This shows a huge misunderstanding of what is going on. This more picking a fight with your allies, and not fighting a war against you enemies.

    Look, you have attitude. Kudos. But, you seem to have a mistaken idea of what is being discussed here, what the real issue is.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Exactly. I'm not sure why people can't see that nearly everything is dependent on what your mission is. If the mission is to win hearts and minds, then the reason doesn't matter. The harm is done.
    This is an idealist approach to an actual situation. Ideally the Koran would not have been burned, but, it was. Ideally the US would have admitted it's mistake(which it did) and ideally these people would apply the principles of forgiveness espoused in the Koran* and accept that it was a mistake and not a means to injure them in any way. Winning hearts and minds is not a one way street the rules do not change according to circumstance.

    *Those who avoid major sins and acts of indecencies and when they are angry they forgive. Qur'an ( 42:37)

    Further, Al-Tawwab: This name means The Acceptor of repentance. This name of Allah is mentioned in the Quran about 11 times. Allah accepts the repentance of those who sincerely repent and turn to him for forgiveness. The word Tawwab gives the sense of oft-returning which means that Allah again and again accepts the repentance. We make sins and mistakes then we repent, He accepts our repentance. Then again we commit sins and make mistakes and when we repent, He again very kindly accepts us and gives us another chance. It is important to mention that we have to repent from our sins quickly and turn to God and ask for His forgiveness.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    This is an idealist approach to an actual situation. Ideally the Koran would not have been burned, but, it was. Ideally the US would have admitted it's mistake(which it did) and ideally these people would apply the principles of forgiveness espoused in the Koran* and accept that it was a mistake and not a means to injure them in any way. Winning hearts and minds is not a one way street the rules do not change according to circumstance.

    *Those who avoid major sins and acts of indecencies and when they are angry they forgive. Qur'an ( 42:37)

    Further, Al-Tawwab: This name means The Acceptor of repentance. This name of Allah is mentioned in the Quran about 11 times. Allah accepts the repentance of those who sincerely repent and turn to him for forgiveness. The word Tawwab gives the sense of oft-returning which means that Allah again and again accepts the repentance. We make sins and mistakes then we repent, He accepts our repentance. Then again we commit sins and make mistakes and when we repent, He again very kindly accepts us and gives us another chance. It is important to mention that we have to repent from our sins quickly and turn to God and ask for His forgiveness.
    Nothing ideal about it. It is understanding your mission and making sure you account for all the important variables. No realistic, reasonable person would not have known this would cause a problem.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #110
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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    not really, you have never been to a hostile region never met the local familes, kids, women trying to get on with their lifes and hoping that maybe you will be able to provide some stability to their lifes. The conflicts we are inviolved in today are not total war situations where you can just carpet bomb the problem away. The guys that sign up for this know what they are getting into and they are trained of this. Im feel sorry for you that you dont see the big picture and only see an enemy rather than people. I hope that one day you will be able to open your mind and see the people that are really affected by all this.


    You know Higgin's. You ARE absolutely right. You will get no argument from me. I make it a policy to try not to argue logic and the dictates of reason.

    I must confess, that for years, I held to the same way of thinking. I don't think it was that long ago, actually, that I found myself formulating new thoughts. New feelings about it all.

    If I had a mustard seed of hope that the approach you so elequently laid out before us would work, I would devote much time, thought and prayers to that end.

    But I am convinced those people on that side of the planet are bat**** lunatic, what with their stupid ass religion and archaic cultures and beliefs. Now, I know that is a very broad statement and I take in account of those people who do not fit that mold. I am reminded of an old scripture saying something to the effect "If there are 7 rightous in the city..." or something like that.

    I do not advise the burning of the Quran. I think it is in bad form and it shows lack up upbringing. But it ain't my bitch. Comprende?

    I wish the Islamic people well. I wish we could just work our side of the street and let them work theirs, peacefully.

    But I do not want to have anything to do with them. I would swear an oath that I would not go seek them for harm if they would just stay on their side of the world.

    But, put us in the same arena, they are my enemy. Their ideologies, beliefs, and way of life, across-the-board, in general, stands firmly against what I know to be rightful and just. I want not a single cell of their cancer to infect our side of the planet. **** them and the camel they rode in on.

    Their hate for us brings out my hate for them. And I hate hate.

    I have said it before and I will say it again. I regret I have only on bladder to give for my country. Piss on all of them.

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

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