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Thread: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    pissing on the dead taliban was stupid but I understand why they did that ( dont condone it) but burning the Koran isjust asking for trouble. You their to protect the people not stir the hornets nest, the Koran is the most important thing in the world to any Muslim so to burn it is just asking for trouble.
    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Well to be fair I don't think they burned the Koran just to spite people...did they? FWIW we have burned Bibles as well...that's how the US military handles everything it regards as waste/garbage that it doesn't need to use anymore. Burn or bury it. Burn poop. Burn Korans. Not saying they shoulda done it, but i don't think they did it just to piss people off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    its a mistake at this point they should not be making, mistake or not it should not be happening and that mistake will endanger western forces.
    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Agreed, I'm all for being knowledgeable and sensitive to the culture of the country one's army is occupying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Does free speech include starting a fire in a theatre?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    I think the fact that the act was performed by a foreign army made it much more reprehensible, not sure if it was intentional or not I've heard conflicting reports, at this point I don't think the citizens care if it was intentional or not, they just need a target for their aggression.
    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    agreed but soldiers are also professionals and are trained to adapt to any situation. This current war requires a basic understanding of the local people and their beliefs and who ever burned the Korans ( mistake or not) failed to do his job.
    OK check this out:
    The Korans were part of a fairly large pile of stuff which was taken off of prisoners over the coarse of months. Finaly the time came to clean out the ConEx all this stuff was in.

    Local Nationals are used for such labor jobs, to include handling garbage.

    Local Nationals disposed of all that stuff, including the Korans. It's very likely they didn't realize their holy book was among the items.

    Trash is disposed of in burn pits. When the Local Nationals disposed of the ConEx of 'junk', they naturally took it all to the burn pit, because that's where they take all the trash from all over the base. Nothing unusual here.

    Other Local National workers on a regular garbage rout were dumping a load when they noticed burning pages of the Koran in the burn pit where the 'junk' from that ConEx was disposed of by other Local Nationals.

    Oops, **** happens.

    US soldiers did not take Korans and burn them. This was an accident thru a garbage detail manned by the very people who are protesting. No one's at fault, there is no criminal intent to incite a riot, it was an accident.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-22-12 at 07:56 AM.

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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    How about a demonstration thanking us for saving them from Osama Bin Laden and the Taleban?

    Oh wait, they are the Taleban.

    Never mind.

    neither osama nor taleban represent islam.

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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Honestly I can't feel sorry for them. They burn the Bible which is sacred to Christians. "Do unto others as you would have done unto you".
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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    The koran burnt in a Florida church was an accident too I guess.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Here, why don't you educate yourself instead of laughing off other people's arguments Mya:

    http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-24.pdf
    As stated in the manual: "The primary audience for this manual is leaders and planners at the battalion level and above." This is good fodder for those who wish to imagine themselves experts on regarding this situation, but, it is a far cry from any reality especially that on a forum.

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    Re: Afghans vent fury over Koran burning, U.S. apologizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Other Local National workers on a regular garbage rout were dumping a load when they noticed burning pages of the Koran in the burn pit where the 'junk' from that ConEx was disposed of by other Local Nationals.

    Oops, **** happens.

    US soldiers did not take Korans and burn them. This was an accident thru a garbage detail manned by the very people who are protesting. No one's at fault, there is no criminal intent to incite a riot, it was an accident.
    Okay, I could easily see this happening. This makes sense.
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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    "It was not a decision that was made because they were religious materials," Allen said. "It was not a decision that was made with respect to the faith of Islam. It was a mistake. It was an error. The moment we found out about it, we immediately stopped and we intervened."....U.S. Gen. John Allen, the top commander of American and NATO forces in Afghanistan, said the books had been mistakenly given to troops to be burned at a garbage pit at Bagram, north of Kabul."

    Quran-burning an accident, U.S. tells Afghanistan | Detroit Free Press

    This was not the way to react to the situation, no matter how much the Koran means to these people. For a religion of peace this is despicable.

    "Demonstrations turned violent on Wednesday morning in the capital and in Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan where one person was killed and at least six injured, according to government officials. Protesters attempting to break into the NATO base at the Jalalabad airfield set fire to six fuel tankers in a nearby parking lot. In Kabul, protesters threw rocks at Afghan Army vehicles and shouted anti-American slogans as they blocked the main road to eastern Afghanistan."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/wo...-protests.html


    Therein lies the desensitization to just what the Koran may mean those who claim to practice Islam, the actions of some followers are filled with contradictions, mayhem, death, inhumane treatment of others within their faith this is all very confusing. It is my understanding that the Koran itself preaches forgiveness of mistakes and this situation clearly falls under that category.

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    It was a mistake. It's gonna have consequences, no doubt, probably really bad ones. Especially following the incident with the marines pissing on Afghan corpses. But it's still just a dumb mistake.
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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    As stated in the manual: "The primary audience for this manual is leaders and planners at the battalion level and above." This is good fodder for those who wish to imagine themselves experts on regarding this situation, but, it is a far cry from any reality especially that on a forum.
    Look Connery, I like you and your posts are usually insightful, but you're going to have to do better than "this source is wrong because it's wrong."
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Afghans Protest Alleged Koran Desecration

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    "It was not a decision that was made because they were religious materials," Allen said. "It was not a decision that was made with respect to the faith of Islam. It was a mistake. It was an error. The moment we found out about it, we immediately stopped and we intervened."....U.S. Gen. John Allen, the top commander of American and NATO forces in Afghanistan, said the books had been mistakenly given to troops to be burned at a garbage pit at Bagram, north of Kabul."

    Quran-burning an accident, U.S. tells Afghanistan | Detroit Free Press

    This was not the way to react to the situation, no matter how much the Koran means to these people. For a religion of peace this is despicable.

    "Demonstrations turned violent on Wednesday morning in the capital and in Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan where one person was killed and at least six injured, according to government officials. Protesters attempting to break into the NATO base at the Jalalabad airfield set fire to six fuel tankers in a nearby parking lot. In Kabul, protesters threw rocks at Afghan Army vehicles and shouted anti-American slogans as they blocked the main road to eastern Afghanistan."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/wo...-protests.html


    Therein lies the desensitization to just what the Koran may mean those who claim to practice Islam, the actions of some followers are filled with contradictions, mayhem, death, inhumane treatment of others within their faith this is all very confusing. It is my understanding that the Koran itself preaches forgiveness of mistakes and this situation clearly falls under that category.
    See, the thing is it doesn't matter at all WHY we did this or not, or whether there was ill intent or not.. Unfortunately, what matters is perception. I don't disagree with anything you've posted here, but most of it is irrelevant.

    These protesters may be crazy zealots, but calling them out for it doesn't change the fact that we are fighting a war in a country filled with such zealots with a tribal mentality. You can call them out for their irrationality all you want but the fact of the matter is calling them out for their irrationality doesn't change the fact that WE are trying to fight a war on THEIR soil, and we can't change their culture or way of thinking with a snap of the finger.

    It is incumbent upon our forces to adapt their practices accordingly; because telling these people "oh, we're sorry, we didn't mean to offend, you're not being a true Muslim, now please get over it" doesn't help you win the war, even if it is valid criticism.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 02-22-12 at 10:27 AM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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