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Thread: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

  1. #51
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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Are you familiar with the difference between correlation and causation? Do you have a link for all those stats you just cited?
    they are in the book she was responding to. thanks for reading!

    children of single parents do just as well in school and are just as well behaved as children from two-parent families, when you correct for the income and education of the parents.
    wow. you really didnt read a single word, did you?

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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Cutting education spending, lowering wages, kicking children out of the health insurance roles, cutting safety net spending, reducing child labor protections ... taken together, makes the case for intent. You can't argue with a straight fact that your party isn't focused on advancing the interests of the wealthy at the expense of everyone else. Look at those tax plans your candidates are putting forward. Like Mr. Fetus, for example:

    Like other Republican tax planks, Santorum’s would benefit corporations and high-income individuals. No surprise there. But unlike his rivals, he’d also cut taxes for many families with children.



    Santorum is no bleeding heart, however. Even as he’d cut their taxes, he’d shred direct government spending for programs aimed at assisting these same households.

    As part of his plan to cut federal spending by $5 trillion over five years, he’d immediately slash many domestic programs to 2008 levels and freeze for five years spending for social programs such as Medicaid, housing subsidies, food stamps, education and job training.
    Santorum's tax plan leaves hole in budget- MSN Money

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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    they are in the book she was responding to. thanks for reading!

    wow. you really didnt read a single word, did you?
    Are you going to answer either question?

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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage



    1. i have no link - i have the printed word sitting directly in front of me.
    2. single parent households are overwhelmingly under educated and make less money. arguing that you factor for that and everything is fine is like arguing that the car wreck didn't kill her so long as you factor out the steel beam slamming through her body.

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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Cutting education spending, lowering wages, kicking children out of the health insurance roles, cutting safety net spending, reducing child labor protections ... taken together, makes the case for intent
    leaving aside your incorrect claim on health insurance (Obamacare, for example, outlaws the kinds of low cost plans that are so beneficial to the poor), your "intent" claim only makes sense if you assume that encouraging government dependency helps the poor. Conservatives woke up from that delusion long ago. Our programs are designed to actually help people, not cripple them.

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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    There seems to be some inconsistency in this discussion. The "married, two parent household" seems to solely focus on heterosexual marriages, and "unwed mothers" seems to be used to indicate absent fathers, as opposed to couples in committed relationships who are simply not married.

    The last type is becoming more and more popular, as the traditional uses of marriage (political alliances, transfer of women from family to family) are becoming obsolete in the face of social and economic equality for woman, and the economic uses of marriage (inheritance and joint property) no longer require a marriage to function.

    The OP is talking about a rise in unmarried women having children. It doesn't differentiate well between single mothers and mothers in relationships. The idea of permanent linking just seems more dangerous now than it used to. It is completely possible to go through life unmarried. That was not the case a few centuries ago, when women had to marry for economic stability. Now, with the uncoupling of sex (and thus children) from marriage, marriage is no longer as needed.

    Ms. Strader, in the article, is unwilling to risk marriage, as the men in her life weren't up to snuff. But should that limit her from having sex and raising her children? She doesn't need to marry these men, and doesn't need to take the risk.

    Basically, legal mingling of two people is no longer the advantage, and certainly not the necessity, it once was.
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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Is it ironic to anyone else that the PRO-LIFE crowd isn't taking this "statistic" as a win?

    It means unmarried mothers are not aborting.

    They are doing exactly what the pro-life crowd wants, yet for some reason the pro-life crowd still finds something to bitch about.

    Awesome.
    If I thought that that was a valid argument in favor of abortion, then I would have to argue instead that it would be better to wait until a child has had at least a few year of life, enough to get a better idea of what kind of life that child is going to have, and then to kill those who are found to have lives that fall below some arbitrary threshold. This would certainly be more productive that killing children before they have even been born, based on any efforts we could make at that time to predict what kind of lives they would have.
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    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    There seems to be some inconsistency in this discussion. The "married, two parent household" seems to solely focus on heterosexual marriages, and "unwed mothers" seems to be used to indicate absent fathers, as opposed to couples in committed relationships who are simply not married.

    The last type is becoming more and more popular, as the traditional uses of marriage (political alliances, transfer of women from family to family) are becoming obsolete in the face of social and economic equality for woman, and the economic uses of marriage (inheritance and joint property) no longer require a marriage to function.

    The OP is talking about a rise in unmarried women having children. It doesn't differentiate well between single mothers and mothers in relationships. The idea of permanent linking just seems more dangerous now than it used to. It is completely possible to go through life unmarried. That was not the case a few centuries ago, when women had to marry for economic stability. Now, with the uncoupling of sex (and thus children) from marriage, marriage is no longer as needed.

    Ms. Strader, in the article, is unwilling to risk marriage, as the men in her life weren't up to snuff. But should that limit her from having sex and raising her children? She doesn't need to marry these men, and doesn't need to take the risk.

    Basically, legal mingling of two people is no longer the advantage, and certainly not the necessity, it once was.
    The article stated that unmarried with children couples were more likely to split up than married couples were.
    As CP pointed out, the biggest player in family economics is whether or not, 2 parents exist in the household.

    Supporting the unmarried but together family, can lead to disastrous consequences.
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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    There seems to be some inconsistency in this discussion. The "married, two parent household" seems to solely focus on heterosexual marriages, and "unwed mothers" seems to be used to indicate absent fathers, as opposed to couples in committed relationships who are simply not married.
    because that's the statistically significant portions. you could have a discussion on whether being raised by a first cousin is better than being raised by a second cousin... but it wouldn't exactly be pertinent to the metatrends.

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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The article stated that unmarried with children couples were more likely to split up than married couples were.
    As CP pointed out, the biggest player in family economics is whether or not, 2 parents exist in the household.

    Supporting the unmarried but together family, can lead to disastrous consequences.
    You know though: from the experiences of many (including my own): BEING married can lead to disasterous consequences. Marriage is the 'fix it' for when you've ****ed up to countless people when yo '**** up' and 'get pregnant' when you're a teen - get married to 'fix it' and 'make it right' - - and you know: one wrong does not fix a wrong. Marriage shoudl never have been treated as a necessity in that way or a bandaide. Doing so just makes you another statistic. I was married, had 2 kids and divorced before the age of 21 - how pathetic is that? I ended up moving back in with my parents after that ended, too - obviously we could have just avoided the more disasterous consequences of the marriage altogether.

    At least these women are willing to handle it on their own - I never considered the idea - I was incapable, honestly. Everyone preaches about personal responsibility - well there you go. They might have made the wrong choices that led to premarital sex and unplanned pregnancy but at least they're taking care of their responsibilities.

    How is an unwanted marriage on top of an unplanned pregnancy suppose to FIX that? It won't. It will, however, create serious emotional and familial issues when there are none.

    If a couple loves their child but doesn't want to be married - and that is what will make them GOOD parents becaues they can still get along and have a good life with their child then THAT is what's best.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 02-21-12 at 09:16 AM.
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