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Thread: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

  1. #41
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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Is it ironic to anyone else that the PRO-LIFE crowd isn't taking this "statistic" as a win?

    It means unmarried mothers are not aborting.

    They are doing exactly what the pro-life crowd wants, yet for some reason the pro-life crowd still finds something to bitch about.

    Awesome.

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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Is it ironic to anyone else that the PRO-LIFE crowd isn't taking this "statistic" as a win?

    It means unmarried mothers are not aborting.

    They are doing exactly what the pro-life crowd wants, yet for some reason the pro-life crowd still finds something to bitch about.

    Awesome.
    Wow, what a way to make this about abortion. You must be fun at parties.

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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Is it ironic to anyone else that the PRO-LIFE crowd isn't taking this "statistic" as a win?

    It means unmarried mothers are not aborting.

    They are doing exactly what the pro-life crowd wants, yet for some reason the pro-life crowd still finds something to bitch about.

    Awesome.
    Well I don't read facts about 'children born to' and immediately think of 'abortion' - sorry if that dissapoints (them - not you) But you have a good point: damned if they do - damned if they don't.
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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Is it ironic to anyone else that the PRO-LIFE crowd isn't taking this "statistic" as a win?

    It means unmarried mothers are not aborting.

    They are doing exactly what the pro-life crowd wants, yet for some reason the pro-life crowd still finds something to bitch about.

    Awesome.
    True, it's why, to me, it's so hard to take them seriously when they cry, "won't someone please think of the children?!" Most women who have abortions do so because they don't feel that they are in a financial position to take care of a child, or another child, but most abortion opponents are also opponents of public assistance, SCHIP, and numerous other programs designed to help children *after* they're born.

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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Is it ironic to anyone else that the PRO-LIFE crowd isn't taking this "statistic" as a win?

    It means unmarried mothers are not aborting.

    They are doing exactly what the pro-life crowd wants, yet for some reason the pro-life crowd still finds something to bitch about.

    Awesome.
    two parent families > single parent families > killing children. not really sure why that logic so difficult to figure.

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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    True, it's why, to me, it's so hard to take them seriously when they cry, "won't someone please think of the children?!" Most women who have abortions do so because they don't feel that they are in a financial position to take care of a child, or another child, but most abortion opponents are also opponents of public assistance, SCHIP, and numerous other programs designed to help children *after* they're born.
    quick! without looking name the Presidential Contender for 2012 claiming that we need to triple the favorable treatment of children in the tax code!

    now - again, no google - which side of the political spectrum wants to provide education vouchers to allow poor children to escape failed educational systems and have a better chance at life?

    keep answering honestly now - which political aisle wants to lower the cost of entry to the work force by getting rid of minimum wage laws and reducing employment regulatory complexity, thereby making it easier for poor youths to get that first job and begin developing full-time work skills that will statistically help push them into the middle class?
    Last edited by cpwill; 02-21-12 at 12:24 AM.

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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    quick! without looking name the Presidential Contender for 2012 claiming that we need to triple the favorable treatment of children in the tax code!
    Don't know. It sure isn't the front runner.

    [Ronmey] would also raise taxes on poor families with children at home and those going to college. Romney does this by reducing benefits from the child tax credit and the earned income tax credit and by ending the American Opportunity tax credit for college education.
    now - again, no google - which side of the political spectrum wants to provide education vouchers to allow poor children to escape failed educational systems and have a better chance at life?
    You mean which party wants to kill public education by siphoning off much needed funds from schools? That would be the Republicans.

    keep answering honestly now - which political aisle wants to lower the cost of entry to the work force by getting rid of minimum wage laws and reducing employment regulatory complexity, thereby making it easier for poor youths to get that first job and begin developing full-time work skills that will statistically help push them into the middle class?
    Seriously? You want to claim that lowering young people's wages is pro-children?

    What a silly quiz. Let's try this one: which party made it a major platform plank to oppose expanded health insurance for children? Which party is maniacal about repealing Obamacare, which extends health coverage to millions of children? Which party had multiple candidates who want to abolish the Department of Education? Which party has a candidate who wants to take a whach at child labor laws? Which party opposes the DREAM Act, meaning that they want to expel children who were brought here by their parents and who may not even speak the language of their native countries? Which party wants to slash the school lunch program?

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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I was confused by the article. Were they referring to white women only the entire time - or just for a portion of the relayed statistics?

    That part is stupid, though:


    What - only educated people know how to get married? LOL
    :/ except that statistically, the answer is: increasingly yes. for example, in 1960 the marriage rate was about 85% for lower class Americans. It has since dropped to 50%... but has stayed at 85% for upper class. Even then, roughly 1/3rd of lower class marriages in the 30-49 age group end in divorce, whereas only 5% of upper class marriages do. for white mothers with college degrees, for example, the current illegitimacy rate is 5%. for white mothers who dropped out of high school, that rate is over 60%. when the nonmarital births and divorced rates are figured together, what you get is about 6-7 times as many poor/lower class families raising kids with one parent as educated families.

    children raised in single parent households do worse at school, are more likely to get in trouble with the law, and themselves make poorer life decisions (hard drug usage, for example). educated parents are far more likely to get and stay married, thus raising children who themselves are more likely to become fully educated, make above average income, and then get and stay married. non educated parents are more likely to do the opposite.

    PEW Research did research on why people fall from the middle class into poverty, and noticed a few extremely high correlations.

    #1 was divorce
    #2 was failure to marry
    #3 was using heroin
    #4 was failure to graduate high school.

    yeah. there is a definite line being drawn in American society between the large group of people who are poor and fail at marriage, and those who are not and do not.

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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    :/ except that statistically, the answer is: increasingly yes. for example, in 1960 the marriage rate was about 85% for lower class Americans. It has since dropped to 50%... but has stayed at 85% for upper class. Even then, roughly 1/3rd of lower class marriages in the 30-49 age group end in divorce, whereas only 5% of upper class marriages do. for white mothers with college degrees, for example, the current illegitimacy rate is 5%. for white mothers who dropped out of high school, that rate is over 60%. when the nonmarital births and divorced rates are figured together, what you get is about 6-7 times as many poor/lower class families raising kids with one parent as educated families.

    children raised in single parent households do worse at school, are more likely to get in trouble with the law, and themselves make poorer life decisions (hard drug usage, for example). educated parents are far more likely to get and stay married, thus raising children who themselves are more likely to become fully educated, make above average income, and then get and stay married. non educated parents are more likely to do the opposite.

    PEW Research did research on why people fall from the middle class into poverty, and noticed a few extremely high correlations.

    #1 was divorce
    #2 was failure to marry
    #3 was using heroin
    #4 was failure to graduate high school.

    yeah. there is a definite line being drawn in American society between the large group of people who are poor and fail at marriage, and those who are not and do not.
    Are you familiar with the difference between correlation and causation? Do you have a link for all those stats you just cited?

    The fact is, as indicated in the Cornell study I cited above, children of single parents do just as well in school and are just as well behaved as children from two-parent families, when you correct for the income and education of the parents.

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    Re: For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Don't know. It sure isn't the front runner.
    you're right. it's that far right wing crazy social extremist who wants to ban abortion you may recall this started off with the idiotic claim that the Pro-Life movement didnt' really care about children.

    You mean which party wants to kill public education by siphoning off much needed funds from schools?
    no, funding would stay the same - the quality would vastly improve. but here's another guess - which President in his most recent budget slashed scholarship programs in Washington DC that went to poor children?

    Seriously? You want to claim that lowering young people's wages getting rid of the minimum wage is pro-children?
    it certainly is. keeping minorities out of the workforce is why we got the minimum wage in the first place, after all, and a large percentage of minimum wage earners are our youth. the point, however, is that the real "minimum wage" is zero. as in, unemployed, and artificial price floors (such as minimum wages) simply ensure that any good not currently viable at that price will go unsold. a large percentage of our youth unemployed is not worth minimum wage plus the costs of hiring an employee, which is why they are systemically unemployable, and can earn money only under the table and in the black (illegal) economy. but hey, congratulations on convincing generations of young black kids that their only hope for advancement is rap music or the drug industry. that's worked out really well for them.

    What a silly quiz. Let's try this one: which party made it a major platform plank to oppose expanded health insurance for children?
    Republicans. you may recall their introduction of low-cost health plans that allowed our poor to build wealth called HSA's?

    Which party is maniacal about repealing Obamacare, which extends health coverage to millions of children?
    a 26 year old is not a child. and obamacare makes our healthcare system and our fiscal straits worse for children.

    I note, for example, that you do not bring up the fact that one current Spend Spend Spend party is busy selling our children's futures in return for current easy cash. one party passed a budget last year which reduces the future burden of this generation on the next... the other one distinctly failed to so.

    Which party had multiple candidates who want to abolish the Department of Education?
    precisely. because it would help children. if you want something to become overly expensive and inefficient, you get the Federal Government to run it. why in the world would we wish to punish our children by making the educational system they depend on to gain the skills they will need to compete in the world overly expensive and inefficient.

    Which party has a candidate who wants to take a whach at child labor laws help poor youth find jobs?
    fixed that for you.

    Republicans think that work experience that they can later translate into jobs is better for our teenagers than teaching them dependence upon suckling at the states' teats while learning nothing in the failure factories that go by the name of "schools".






    look, you can argue policy wise that this or that program helps or doesn't help poor children. but you didnt' do that - you argued intent. which is false on its' face - the conservative movement is chock-a-block with ideas on how to help our poor, especially our underadvantaged children.
    Last edited by cpwill; 02-21-12 at 12:56 AM.

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