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Saudi Arabia says no to women Olympians

Look Im not saying we in the west do not have issues with violence against women. But our laws protect women who become victims of crimes. In many countries whos laws are based on Islamic law (sharia law) women are treated as second class citizens. They are punished for things they should be protected from. The men in these countries use sharia law to keep women down.
 
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SgtRock said:
Look Im not saying we in the west do not have issues with violence against women. But our laws protect women who become victims of crimes. In many countries whos laws are based on Islamic law (sharia law) women are treated as second class citizens. They are punished for things they should be protected from. The men in these countries use sharia law to keep women down.
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can't drive, can't participate in the Olympics, MUST cover their whole bodies.

yeah, Saudi Arabia is a land of freedom & liberty for the ladies.
 
Thunder said:
that's not the point.

Saudi Arabia should not discriminate against Jews or Christians, or any other non-Muslims.

you however, seem to think its okee dokee. and you justify it with anti-Jewish stereotypes.
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And Israelis shouldn't discriminate against Arabs.

Saudi Arabia NEVER discriminated against me or any member of my family or any of my friends.

When Israel quits the occupied territories, they will have trade and diplomatic relations with 22 Arab states.
 
sharon said:
And Israelis shouldn't discriminate against Arabs.

Saudi Arabia NEVER discriminated against me or any member of my family or any of my friends.

When Israel quits the occupied territories, they will have trade and diplomatic relations with 22 Arab states.
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don't go there.
 
sharon said:
And Israelis shouldn't discriminate against Arabs.

Saudi Arabia NEVER discriminated against me or any member of my family or any of my friends.

When Israel ceases to exist, there will be celebration in 22 Arab states.
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There I fixed it for you to reflect what you really meant to say.
 
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Thunder said:
can't drive, can't participate in the Olympics, MUST cover their whole bodies.

yeah, Saudi Arabia is a land of freedom & liberty for the ladies.
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I have never worn and Abaya ot headcaarf in my life.. and neither did any other American women.
 
SgtRock said:
Here is one from the UAE a Dubai court sentenced a young woman to prison for being gang raped.

DUBAI: Alleged victim of gang rape sentenced to one year in prison - latimes.com

Do you want more, I'll give you more. I could go on posting atrocities against women by courts in countries throughout the middle east all day. And its only going to get worse now that islamist groups are taking over countries whose dictators have been overthrown such as Egypt, Lybia, Tunisia, and soon Syria.
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Why do you want to change Saudi Arabia?

They have a very low crime rate and a small prison population?
 
Thunder said:
because their women are second-class citizens, and they discriminate against non-Muslims.

and their laws are draconian and 12th century.
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Following are some rights, which Muslim women have!

1. The RIGHT and duty to acquire education.

2. The RIGHT to have her own independent property.

3. The RIGHT to work [job or business] to earn money, which she keeps it.

4. The RIGHT to equal reward for equal deed and/or work.

5. The RIGHT to express her opinion.

6. The RIGHT to argue and/or advocate her cause or opinion to be heard.

7. The RIGHT to vote since 1,421 years.

8. The RIGHT to provisions from her husband for all her needs and more.

9. The RIGHT to negotiate marriage terms of her choice.

10.The RIGHT to obtain divorce from her husband, even on the grounds that she simply don't like him. In Islaam divorce is suppose to be last resort.

11.The RIGHT to keep all her own money. [She is not responsible for maintenance of family].

12.The RIGHT to get sexual satisfaction from her husband.

13.The RIGHT to get custody of her children in case of divorce [unless she is unable to raise them for valid reasons]

14.The RIGHT to choose husband of her choice.

15.The RIGHT to refuse a proposed and/or arranged marriage.

16. The RIGHT to re-marry after divorce or after becoming widow.

EXEMPTIONS GIVEN TO WOMEN IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCE.

Women are exempt from:

a.. Fasting when they are pregnant or nursing or menstruating,
b.. Praying when menstruating or bleeding after childbirth,
c.. The obligation to attend congregational prayers in the mosque on Fridays.
d.. They are not obliged to take part as soldiers in the defense of Islam, although they are not forbidden to do so.
But under normal circumstances they are allowed to do all the things that men do.

Women's Rights in Islam
 
SgtRock said:
There I fixed it for you to reflect what you really meant to say.
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Please don't quote me and change the text..........

I would NOT to that to you.
 
Thunder said:
but they can't drive, they can't walk around without their bodies covered, etc etc...

the discrimination against women in Saudi Arabia is well documented.
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Bedouin women have been driving for decades..

Urban women will get the right to drive as soon as the 100 new Highway Plazas are completed by Prince Salman.

And, women go out without a male escort all the time.. They shop, visit each other, go to cafes, to the market to the bank and grocery stores, souks etc........
 
Does a Saudi woman in Saudi Arabia have the right to date whomever she wishes? And if she chooses to date a man and is seen in public with him is she at risk? What if her father or brother disaproves of the man she is dating?
 
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SgtRock said:
Does a Saudi woman in Saudi Arabia have the right to date whomever she wishes? And if she chooses to date a man and is seen in public with him is she at risk?
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Marriages are arranged..

Why?

They don't "date"..

Its a mistake for foreigners to force change on other cultures.. you see it never works.
 
Quotes from the Quran, Surahs, and Hadiths regarding women that form the basis for how women are to be treated under sharia law.


Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."


Qur'an 4:11 "Allah directs you in regard of your Children's (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females.... These are settled portions ordained by Allah."


Qur'an 2:282 "And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women [a man is worth two women, and one man is always needed], such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her."

Qur'an 4:43 "Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving."

Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death claims them."

Qur'an 24:1 "This is a surah which We have revealed and made obligatory and in which We have revealed clear communications that you may be mindful. For the woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah. And let a party of the Believers witness their punishment."

Qur'an 24:6 "And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth."

Muslim:B1N142 "O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.' A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah's Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: 'You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.' Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, 'Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof."

Bukhari:V3B48N826 "The Prophet said, 'Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?' The women said, 'Yes.' He said, 'This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
 
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Don't quote scripture to me when you have little understanding.. of the overall culture and have never lived in Arabia.

The biggest thing you can beat your wife with is a Miswak....There's very little domestic violence because the husband would have to deal with his wife's father, brothers and sons.. and because divorce is readily in Arabia.


SgtRock said:
Quotes from the Quran Surahs and Hadiths regarding women that form the basis for how women are to be treated under sharia law.

Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."


Qur'an 4:11 "Allah directs you in regard of your Children's (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females.... These are settled portions ordained by Allah."


Qur'an 2:282 "And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women [a man is worth two women, and one man is always needed], such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her."

Qur'an 4:43 "Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving."

Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death claims them."

Qur'an 24:1 "This is a surah which We have revealed and made obligatory and in which We have revealed clear communications that you may be mindful. For the woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah. And let a party of the Believers witness their punishment."

Qur'an 24:6 "And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth."

Muslim:B1N142 "O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.' A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah's Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: 'You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.' Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, 'Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof."

Bukhari:V3B48N826 "The Prophet said, 'Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?' The women said, 'Yes.' He said, 'This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
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sharon said:
Marriages are arranged..

Why?

They don't "date"..

Its a mistake for foreigners to force change on other cultures.. you see it never works.
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Because women should not have the right to date whomever they wish. They can not be trusted. They are not as smart as men. They are like domestic animals, right?
 
Thunder said:
The Afrikaaners said the same thing about folks who demanded the end to Apartheid.
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Ah.. you are speaking of White European immigrants to South Africa.

That is NOT a problem in Arabia.. They were never a colony .....
 
SgtRock said:
Because women should not have the right to date whomever they wish. They can not be trusted. They are not as smart as men. They are like domestic animals, right?
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Do you want foreigners demanding that Israelis be forbidden the right to dress like Haredi or force them to eat pork?
 
Thunder said:
do you think it was wrong to demand South Africa end Apartheid?
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No... and do remember is was white immigrant privilege over the rights of native South Africans.
 
sharon said:
No... and do remember is was white immigrant privilege over the rights of native South Africans.
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the white South Africans became natives too...after a few generations. and it was THEIR culture, to see blacks as inferior.

who were we, to try to change South African culture...right?

;)
 
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