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Texas law requires women to hear description of fetus before abortion

j-mac said:
Some "worms" make it to supposed adulthood....;)


j-mac
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And when they do, often in dire straits, in less than desirable homes, conservatives in states like Texas and Virginia will refuse to spend state taxes to support some or all of their needs. If those babies are drug babies the chances are excellent that the child will be born with physical and/or emotional and intellectual disabilities. Texas will gladly pay those costs as well, I suppose. You'll to raise taxes to do it. Brilliant!
 
nota bene said:
Well, if you want stats on late-term abortion, you would have to study state stats such as those of Kansas.
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Heh. Yeah.

I'm not in favor of abortions after the first trimester, so don't even get me started on what I think of medically unnecessary late-term abortions. Elective late-term abortions are quite rare, contrary to what some circles would have us believe, but even one is too many as far as I'm concerned.
 
Arcana XV said:
I love men. I really have no idea what you're talking about. Other than making it clear that you have a very dismal understanding of the concept of sarcasm, I can't really figure out the point of this comment. :shrug:
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Ahh, you were lying. Thank you for admitting your dishonesty. Shall we continue with the thread?
 
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Jerry said:
Ahh, you were lying. Thank you for admiting your dihonesty. Shall we continue with the thread?
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Not if you're going to go around calling others liars. :(
 
Jerry said:
Ahh, you were lying. Thank you for admitting your dishonesty. Shall we continue with the thread?
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Lying about what? :lol: Seriously, do you know what sarcasm is?

At ease, soldier. By all means, let's get this thread back on track. Do you think these sorts of laws will have any effect on abortion statistics in the states they're being passed in?
 
Jerry said:
Ahh, you were lying. Thank you for admitting your dishonesty. Shall we continue with the thread?
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At this point, the sum total of your argument is that Arcana XV hates men, and when she contradicts you, you call her a liar.

Do you have any evidence to back up your assertion of man-hating and your accusation of dishonesty, or this yet another of your baseless, insubstantial positions? :D
 
Arcana XV said:
Lying about what? :lol: Seriously, do you know what sarcasm is?

At ease, soldier. By all means, let's get this thread back on track. Do you think these sorts of laws will have any effect on abortion statistics in the states they're being passed in?
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I think it's wise not to take these laws at face-value or put to much energy into supporting/opposing them. All of these miscellaneous laws are the State testing the boundaries for Roe for the inevitable SCOTUS re-visitation of the 35+ y/o ruling.

If anything, take a sample of laws from a given state and try to see how they're testing Roe, what sort of challenge they want to bring.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
At this point, the sum total of your argument is that Arcana XV hates men, and when she contradicts you, you call her a liar.

Do you have any evidence to back up your assertion of man-hating and your accusation of dishonesty, or this yet another of your baseless, insubstantial positions? :D
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Please excuse me, Mr. Evil, but we've decided to move on with the thread. Perhaps your topical interest is better suited for the Basement?
 
Jerry said:
Please excuse me, Mr. Evil, but we've decided to move on with the thread. Perhaps your topical interest is better suited for the Basement?
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In other words, you have no evidence whatsoever, so you're going to hide behind thread etiquette rather than admit it. Even though you were the one who brought the subject up by making the accusation to begin with.

How transparently convenient.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
In other words, you have no evidence whatsoever, so you're going to hide behind thread etiquette rather than admit it. Even though you were the one who brought the subject up by making the accusation to begin with.

How transparently convenient.
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I'm sorry you feel that way. You're certainty welcome to join us in discussing these seemingly frivolous laws.
 
Jerry said:
I think it's wise not to take these laws at face-value or put to much energy into supporting/opposing them. All of these miscellaneous laws are the State testing the boundaries for Roe for the inevitable SCOTUS re-visitation of the 35+ y/o ruling.

If anything, take a sample of laws from a given state and try to see how they're testing Roe, what sort of challenge they want to bring.
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Yeah, I think you're right. It just seems like such a waste of time. While they're playing around trying to figure out what specific argument will stick out enough to make SCOTUS re-evaluate Roe v. Wade, measures that would actually reduce the number of abortions in the meantime are completely ignored. It's all for nothing too, because I really don't think that SCOTUS will ever touch Roe v. Wade with a ten foot pole. The potential for huge social unrest is way too great if they ever dare overturn it.
 
Jerry said:
I'm sorry you feel that way. You're certainty welcome to join us in discussing these seemingly frivolous laws.
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You brought Arcana's supposed man-hate up, and when you're asked for evidence you write it off as a trivial matter. Gotta love cognitive dissonance, especially the misogynistic variety.
 
Arcana XV said:
Yeah, I think you're right. It just seems like such a waste of time. While they're playing around trying to figure out what specific argument will stick out enough to make SCOTUS re-evaluate Roe v. Wade, measures that would actually reduce the number of abortions in the meantime are completely ignored. It's all for nothing too, because I really don't think that SCOTUS will ever touch Roe v. Wade with a ten foot pole. The potential for huge social unrest is way too great if they ever dare overturn it.
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I've seen many people on both sides of the issue support a SCOTUS re-visitation to Roe. This doesn't mean Roe being overturned is even on the table, that's just something radicals on both sides claim.

Roe is just a bad law, poorly written with vague instructions, and it's out-of-date; key pillars in Roe depend on the laws of the time, and these laws have changed since. The ruling is not timeless.

Of course pro-life is going to try and execute the Section 9a clause, and negotiate for states rights as a back up plan. What lse would we expect?

Real solutions to abortion begin and end with personal finance, not rights or sovereignty or any other emotional argument, because personal finance is the main reason women list when they seek an abortion; this is why regardless of what SCOTUS does with Roe, if anything at all, it will not change the use of abortion in any meaningful way.

This is also why any abortion thread which is not about personal finance, is pure and utter bull**** not to be taken seriously.
 
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Jerry said:
Real solutions to abortion begin and end with personal finance, not rights or sovereignty or any other emotional argument, because personal finance is the main reason women list when they seek an abortion; this is why regardless of what SCOTUS does with Roe, if anything at all, it will not change the use of abortion in any meaningful way.

This is also why any abortion thread which is not about personal finance, is pure and utter bull**** not to be taken seriously.
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It's and important part of the issue, for sure. I think it would significantly reduce the number of abortions if low-income or single women were guaranteed enough financial help and/or access to affordable daycare and healthcare. However these things cost the tax-payer money and no one wants their taxes raised and even the staunchest pro-lifers go suddenly silent when this particular issue is raised. That or they start demanding women give up their flesh and blood for adoption.
 
Arcana XV said:
It's and important part of the issue, for sure. I think it would significantly reduce the number of abortions if low-income or single women were guaranteed enough financial help and/or access to affordable daycare and healthcare. However these things cost the tax-payer money and no one wants their taxes raised and even the staunchest pro-lifers go suddenly silent when this particular issue is raised. That or they start demanding women give up their flesh and blood for adoption.
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Is adoption a bad thing?


j-mac
 
Arcana XV said:
It can be. I know very few adopted people who didn't end up with massive issues regarding why they were abandoned in the first place.
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Really? Is that so?....Although anecdotal, I myself was adopted through Catholic Charities, and do not suffer from these so called 'massive issues'.... I don't begin to think that I can speak for every adopted person out there, but how many of these issues are fabricated by those who think they are doing good, delving into the adoptees past in an attempt to find their so called 'real parents', and cause these issues?


j-mac
 
Arcana XV said:
It can be. I know very few adopted people who didn't end up with massive issues regarding why they were abandoned in the first place.
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WTF?
I have never heard anything like that.
I was adopted, and I never really cared, I viewed my family as my family and my mom and dad as my mom and dad.... nothing could change that.
by Catholic charities as well.
My life turned out awesome, and I am really thankful my birth-parents didn't decide to abort me, and even if my life didnt turn out awesome... life is a gift.
 
j-mac said:
Really? Is that so?....Although anecdotal, I myself was adopted through Catholic Charities, and do not suffer from these so called 'massive issues'.... I don't begin to think that I can speak for every adopted person out there, but how many of these issues are fabricated by those who think they are doing good, delving into the adoptees past in an attempt to find their so called 'real parents', and cause these issues?


j-mac
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Mine was anecdotal as well. Friends and coworkers. Only one of them was actually happy, but that was probably because she knew exactly why her birth mother gave her up. The others never really knew. That was really hard on them. One ended up severely depressed after going to India to look for her birth parents. It can get really messy.
 
celticwar17 said:
WTF?
I have never heard anything like that.
I was adopted, and I never really cared, I viewed my family as my family and my mom and dad as my mom and dad.... nothing could change that.
by Catholic charities as well.
My life turned out awesome, and I am really thankful my birth-parents didn't decide to abort me, and even if my life didnt turn out awesome... life is a gift.
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Good for you. Not everyone's that lucky, is all.
 
Arcana XV said:
Mine was anecdotal as well. Friends and coworkers. Only one of them was actually happy, but that was probably because she knew exactly why her birth mother gave her up. The others never really knew. That was really hard on them. One ended up severely depressed after going to India to look for her birth parents. It can get really messy.
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I don't really know why they gave me up, and I don't give a crap. They were probably poor/irresponsible.
But, to avoid serious depression later on it was probably better off just ending the kid from India's life right?

And I have had the exact opposite experience you have with seeing other people who were adopted, I have actually never seen someone else who was adopted depressed/strung out about there birth-parents.

It seems like with people with those personalities would of found something else to be depressed about, instead of the actual depression coming from the adoption situation.

There are statistics that adoption parents more often are better because they choose to have a child, and their philosophy about children tend to be a lot healthier/accepting.
 
celticwar17 said:
I don't really know why they gave me up, and I don't give a crap. They were probably poor/irresponsible.
But, to avoid serious depression later on it was probably better off just ending the kid from India's life right?

And I have had the exact opposite experience you have with seeing other people who were adopted, I have actually never seen someone else who was adopted depressed/strung out about there birth-parents.

It seems like with people with those personalities would of found something else to be depressed about, instead of the actual depression coming from the adoption situation.

There are statistics that adoption parents more often are better because they choose to have a child, and their philosophy about children tend to be a lot healthier/accepting.
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I'm not sure why you're going off on me. I never said adoption was bad. I said it can be. And I take offense at your implying that I think it would have been better for my friend from India to not have been born. I have no idea where that came from. Chill, yeah?
 
Arcana XV said:
Mine was anecdotal as well. Friends and coworkers. Only one of them was actually happy, but that was probably because she knew exactly why her birth mother gave her up. The others never really knew. That was really hard on them. One ended up severely depressed after going to India to look for her birth parents. It can get really messy.
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Would those people have been better off never born?


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Would those people have been better off never born?


j-mac
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Of course not. They were all very grateful to their adoptive parents. My main issue is that I would prefer it if society made it easier for low-income or single mothers to be able to keep their own children. It's something I don't mind my taxes paying for.
 
Arcana XV said:
I'm not sure why you're going off on me. I never said adoption was bad. I said it can be. And I take offense at your implying that I think it would have been better for my friend from India to not have been born. I have no idea where that came from. Chill, yeah?
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Well in your response to whether adoption was bad... you replied as such.
"It can be. I know very few adopted people who didn't end up with massive issues regarding why they were abandoned in the first place."
You suggested that in the Indian friends case, adoption was bad, and in the majority of cases you have seen, adoption was bad. But is it really adoption being bad here? There are many different causes of depression and if you have a tendency to have it then its easy to attach it to something like this just as much as a teenage girl thinks her life is over b/c a boy didn't ask her out, or you hate your job, etc. And you didn't seem to consider the alternative, if in these cases the children were never adopted who knows what situation they would be in? obviously the parents(or government/etc) found that they could not properly provided for their child which already brings them at a disadvantage for their well-being.

And when you are replying in an abortion thread, it is very easy to seem your experiences/attitude on adoption from above could suggest such things. Not like it was really toward you I was more asking whether you were suggesting that or not, b/c I was honestly curious.
 
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