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Texas law requires women to hear description of fetus before abortion

Arcana XV said:
No tool is ever going to reach a woman who is determined to end her pregnancy. It might reach one who is still unsure, but not the one who's made up her mind.
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Yup, pretty much.
 
it will be interesting to see the public reaction, when they start sending women to prison for refusing to allow some doctor to shove a metal tool up her vagina, for no reason other than to give Pro-Choicers the finger.
 
I'm so ****ing sick of hearing about abortion and idiotic, unconstitutional laws attempting to restrict it. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. Otherwise, mind your own ****ing business.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Texas abortion law sparks anger, resignation | www.ktvu.com


A new Texas law requires that women seeking an abortion to see a sonogram of the fetus, as well are asked to hear the heartbeat of the fetus.

Words cannot describe how disappointed I am.
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They really think women are just ****ing stupid don't they and have no sense in their heads that - yes - it's another being growing inside you.

Of course we know - good god. That's the whole entire reason for the drama, heartache, emotion and issues. Trust me: we don't need everyone else's bleeding heart drama on top of our own self-inflicted internal conflict and toil.

What's the father suppose to listen to or look at to learn how to avoid impregnating women when he's not planning on being a partner or father figure?
 
AdamT said:
I'm so ****ing sick of hearing about abortion and idiotic, unconstitutional laws attempting to restrict it. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. Otherwise, mind your own ****ing business.
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How is this law restricting it exactly?
 
If such a law is to exist, then pregnant women planning to have a baby should be required to see a sonogram, informed of the potential permanent health damage and possibly her death if she continues to give birth, informed of the effects of any fetus that is birth defected, and required to work at least 40 hours changing diapers, giving baths and feeding babies at a daycare center to make certain she wants to go thru to labor and is aware of what she is getting into.

The primary flaw in the law is that is specifies pregnant women ONLY seeking abortion. Instead, then ALL pregnant woman should equally treated, including forced to see the fetus, forced to listen to and explained the health dangers and effects of pregnant, labor, and having a child.




However, I have no problem with a 24 waiting period except in medical emergency because there teens and women pressured into an abortion she may not want.
 
Henrin said:
How is this law restricting it exactly?
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Don't play that card - it doesn't do anything for your hand. Obviously the only reason for such things is to compel these stupid women to change their minds, isn't it?
It is quite blunt - that's just doing yourself a disservice with this notion that we're all ignorant and blind.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Don't play that card - it doesn't do anything for your hand. Obviously the only reason for such things is to compel these stupid women to change their minds, isn't it?
It is quite blunt - that's just doing yourself a disservice with this notion that we're all ignorant and blind.
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Compel as in forced to do something different or in restricting access to abortion? I can't see how, sorry. It seems to me that its more like putting information in front of people to make a decision. How exactly is that even illegal by the courts ruling?

And btw, I never said I supported this move and in fact said the opposite.
 
Governments have no ****ing right to force unnecessary and unwanted medical procedures on anybody. End of story.
 
DiAnna said:
Governments have no ****ing right to force unnecessary and unwanted medical procedures on anybody. End of story.
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You should of probably bitched about that during the healthcare debate if you didn't. You should also know that the government forces medical procedures on hospitals and patients all the time. There really is no new ground being broken here.

But yeah, I agree.

Oh and keep in mind the word is power, not right. The word right implies something the government does not have ever.
 
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Henrin said:
Compel as in forced to do something different or in restricting access to abortion? I can't see how, sorry. It seems to me that its more like putting information in front of people to make a decision. How exactly is that even illegal by the courts ruling?

And btw, I never said I supported this move and in fact said the opposite.
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So you don't think it's not an attempt to compel, convince, change ones mind, redirect ones path, make one rethink (pick one - I could give you more, whatever tickles your fancy)

You don't think that any of these women are already aware that they're carrying a developing fetus which will soon become a child? Isn't this the whole REASON why they're there to begin with? Please don't tell me you believe otherwise.

LOL - the day a non-pregnant woman shows up at an abortion clinic is the day you can tell then tell me they're unaware of the natural fact of their condition and must be 'informed of what it is in them'

LOL - good grief.

What's next from the pro-life crowd: you must give your baby a profile, write an essay on it's potential future, sign it up for preschool and give it a name before you can decide whether or not you can actually carry and care for it after it's born?
 
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DiAnna said:
Governments have no ****ing right to force unnecessary and unwanted medical procedures on anybody. End of story.
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especially if the procedure has NO medical benefit whatsoever, is not meant for any medically beneficial purposes, and has political/ideological motivations.

they are forcing women to have their vagina violated, so that Conservatives can say "**** you" to Liberals.

this is disgusting...and should be rejected in ALL ways.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
So you don't think it's not an attempt to compel, convince, change ones mind, redirect ones path, make one rethink (pick one - I could give you more, whatever tickles your fancy)
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General information can change minds or whatever else you wish to call it. Care to tell me how that has been declared unconstitutional yet?
 
Henrin said:
General information can change minds or whatever else you wish to call it. Care to tell me how that has been declared unconstitutional yet?
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I'm not the one arguing that - that's someone else's argument and I'm not going ot play Devil's Advocate and harp on something I'm not actually discussing. The constitution isn't our only dictum for how to approach issues and treat others. We have various things such as personal values, respect of personal space, right to privacy, the ability to self-educate and a measure of human decency, ethics . . . and so on so forth.

So: what I'm saying is that such measures and efforts merely treat us as if we're stupid and uneducated about all these many things - and the majority of us are not.
 
AdamT said:
Judge Declares Pro-Life Texas Sonogram Measure Unconstitutional
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From the article:
what is so disagreeable about offering a woman a chance to know more about the procedure she is about to undergo?
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A sonogram wouldn't be informative *about the procedure* - so there's no point in pretending that it is . . . what hte judge declared is accurate: it is a means to “advance an ideological agenda”

And this:
Until then, women will be legally denied the right to view the image of their unborn child prior to an abortion, squelching their right to be fully informed on a permanent, life-changing decision.
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Denied the right? Oh trust me: if she WANTED one or felt it was her RIGHT to have one we wouldn't be having this entire debate. . . I think it's stupid to try to turn it into something pro-women's rights to push this agenda . . . it's blatantly against women who get to the point of considering an abortion as if they haven't thought about all of the implications of having a child already.

And if they're trying to argue that 'her rights are being denied' - then surely they accept it, then, when women just don't want to exercise their rights and have a sonogram (etc) done at all. . . but to this: no - to this they bawlk. How is it a right if you're expected to 'go along' with it - but going against it isn't an option?

If they're all soooo concerned about women's right to chose things then give women choices - how many mothers in the abortion room will want to see a sonogram do you think - if it's sitting there and they're free to ask . . . how many would actually do so?

If a woman WANTS to know her unborn child and feels it's her RIGHT to have any procedure done to aid in this then it's likely she'll be going to an OBGYN and not an abortionist for her next visit - duh.

In my view: it's the extreme pro-lifers who are in denial of reality and need to be educated on a few things.

And what about the doctors? Here we are watching the debate between Catholic Church and government over what hte government can require a religious unit to cover via medical insurance . . . pharmacists have already been given permission to not provide birth control if they don't feel it's 'right' - so what do the dr's say regarding their right to make decisions in the best interest of their patients and within their concience? Do pro-lifers want to accept this potential outcome of their continuing actions? Seems ot me that some of these excessive measures being taken will open the door in ways they don't want and didn't intend. . . or is this idea that drs and others can choose to support or not support something only applicable if it is pro-life?
 
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I was just posting the cite to indicate the law had been overturned. Didn't read enough of it to gather that it was anti-abortion spew.
 
AdamT said:
Judge Declares Pro-Life Texas Sonogram Measure Unconstitutional
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the Act violates the First and Fourteenth Amendments by requiring patients to submit to such speech, regardless of whether it is wanted or medically necessary; (4) the Act unconstitutionally discriminates on the basis of sex, in violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment; (5) the Act unconstitutionally discriminates between abortion providers and other medical facilities, in violation of the Equal Protection Clause;(6) the Act unconstitutionally discriminates between women who live within 100 miles of anabortion provider, and those who live 100 or more miles away from an abortion provider, inviolation of the Equal Protection Clause; (7) the Act violates women’s Fourteenth Amendment rightto bodily integrity by requiring them to submit to ultrasounds procedures which are neither typicalnor medically necessary; and (8) the Act violates the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments bysubjecting abortion facilities to random, unannounced, and warrantless searches
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Interesting. Some of that appears to be trash like discriminating on the basis of sex, but some of it seems sound.
 
AdamT said:
I was just posting the cite to indicate the law had been overturned. Didn't read enough of it to gather that it was anti-abortion spew.
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I know - it was my springboard :)
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I'm not the one arguing that - that's someone else's argument and I'm not going ot play Devil's Advocate and harp on something I'm not actually discussing.
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Fair enough.

The constitution isn't our only dictum for how to approach issues and treat others. We have various things such as personal values, respect of personal space, right to privacy, the ability to self-educate and a measure of human decency, ethics . . . and so on so forth.
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Eh, true but none of that is legally backed and there is no reason to believe any of that will be treated with respect. Viewing recent actions of the government should tell you that privacy rights they think nothing of. Ethics and human decency are opinion based concepts however.

So: what I'm saying is that such measures and efforts merely treat us as if we're stupid and uneducated about all these many things - and the majority of us are not.
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I don't know if I would say that really, but then, I wouldn't say the effort does much of anything either.
 
Thunder said:
especially if the procedure has NO medical benefit whatsoever, is not meant for any medically beneficial purposes, and has political/ideological motivations.

they are forcing women to have their vagina violated, so that Conservatives can say "**** you" to Liberals.

this is disgusting...and should be rejected in ALL ways.
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Ummm, if a woman is seeking an abortion, she's going to "have her vagina," not to mention her cervix, "violated"...and much more "violently" than from a sonogram.
 
nota bene said:
Ummm, if a woman is seeking an abortion, she's going to "have her vagina," not to mention her cervix, "violated"...and much more "violently" than from a sonogram.
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True enough..
 
nota bene said:
Ummm, if a woman is seeking an abortion, she's going to "have her vagina," not to mention her cervix, "violated"...and much more "violently" than from a sonogram.
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LOL - even if we're not pregnant at all we're always told to do this anyway as if we all crave to be probed via pap smears and swabs.
 
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