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Thread: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post


    what is unrational is the US being pushed into assaulting a peaceful nation, one without nuclear armaments, and one which has signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty
    and that pushing is being orchestrated by an aggressively militant country which possesses a nuclear arsenal, but which refuses to agree to the provisions of the NPT

    Respectfully I will say that in my opinion US is not the irrational nation, rather Iran is.

    USA is not the religious fanatic nation here.

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    Respectfully I will say that in my opinion US is not the irrational nation...
    Have you ever been to California?

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Have you ever been to California?
    I have I studied at Pasadena City College there for a while ....why? oh you mean the strange cults and all that?

    But I don't mean that lol!

    I mean different.
    Last edited by Mya; 05-18-12 at 11:29 PM.

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    I have I studied at Pasadena City College there for a while ....why? oh you mean the strange cults and all that?

    But I don't mean that lol!

    I mean different.
    Ok. I see what you're saying.

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Have you ever been to California?
    2/3!

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you misrepresent what the iranians say
    that happens quite frequently to iran, it seems

    they did not say they refused to negotiate
    in fact they have agreed to participate in negotiations
    but iran has put the 5+1 on notice that it will not concede its right to develop nuclear capacity as a sovereign nation
    and that is a very rational stance

    what is unrational is the US being pushed into assaulting a peaceful nation, one without nuclear armaments, and one which has signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty
    and that pushing is being orchestrated by an aggressively militant country which possesses a nuclear arsenal, but which refuses to agree to the provisions of the NPT
    When has anyone said Iran cannot have a civilian nuclear program? Nobody has denied that. These negotiations have nothing to do with that. It's an Iranian strawman that claims anyone is denying a civilian nuclear program. These negotiations are centered around permitting IAEA inspections, which Iran is denying at Parchin. If Iran isn't testing weapon systems at Parchin, no stalling would be necessary when inspectors request access. Instead, we have negotiations to determine when to hold further negotiations to discuss an outline of further negotiations. By the time Iran permits inspection at Parchin, I imagine they'll find curiously empty buildings more spotless than a clean room.
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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    a war before elections would be cool for personal benefits ... :/
    Envidia te mata !!!

    The blind leading the blind !!!


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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    When has anyone said Iran cannot have a civilian nuclear program? Nobody has denied that. These negotiations have nothing to do with that. It's an Iranian strawman that claims anyone is denying a civilian nuclear program. These negotiations are centered around permitting IAEA inspections, which Iran is denying at Parchin. If Iran isn't testing weapon systems at Parchin, no stalling would be necessary when inspectors request access. Instead, we have negotiations to determine when to hold further negotiations to discuss an outline of further negotiations. By the time Iran permits inspection at Parchin, I imagine they'll find curiously empty buildings more spotless than a clean room.
    wrong:
    Iranian officials have declared that the West has effectively endorsed Iran’s right to enrich uranium, a step they portrayed as a major strategic coup. American officials insist the United States has not done that and has been deliberately ambiguous about whether it would ever grant Iran the right to enrichment.
    [bubba's bold emphasis] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/19/wo...ear-talks.html
    notice how the USA is hedging whether iran can enrich its own uranium
    now let's look at the previously cited article:
    Commenting on the talks between Iran and world powers in Geneva in 2009, in which the issue of 20 percent enriched nuclear fuel had been discussed, Jalili said, “We told them (at the time), ‘If you are willing, we are ready to buy the fuel… otherwise, we will produce it ourselves.’”

    “... If Iran had been provided with 20 percent enriched nuclear fuel, it could not have succeeded in producing the fuel itself, he noted.
    we stepped in it here, when we reneged on a deal to provide the iranians with access to foreign sourced enriched uranium
    we provided justification for iran to pursue its own enrichment capacity

    now let's look at the politics of this:
    ... But American officials said that at a minimum, the Baghdad meeting should be a genuine test of Iran’s willingness to do more than talk. “They’re nervous enough to talk,” said a senior administration official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the delicacy of the negotiations. “Whether they’re nervous enough to act, we don’t know yet.” Another senior official said, “We have a tail wind going into this.” ...
    [emphasis by bubba]

    so delicate, yet we anonymously disclose that the iranians are 'nervous enough to talk'
    notice how we trot that out for public perusal for the world to see
    that iran is willing to sit at a negotiation table is now pointed to by us as an indication of iran's weakness in this matter
    that is beyond stupid
    rather than try to resolve this issue we instead embarrass the nation we are trying to move toward our direction
    as that story states:
    For President Obama, the stakes are huge. A successful meeting could prolong the diplomatic dance with Tehran, delaying any possible military confrontation over the nuclear program until after the presidential election. It could also keep a lid on oil prices, which fell again this week in part because of the decrease in tensions. Lower gasoline prices would aid the economic recovery in the United States, and Mr. Obama’s electoral prospects. ...
    [bubba's added emphasis]
    and yet his people are leaking embarrassing information about the iranians almost assuring that no progress will result
    but the article is correct. for Obama, the implications are huge
    he needs oil prices to settle
    the last thing he needs is for oil to again spike
    that would cause the economy's slow growth to worsen

    so, who really has the upper hand, here?
    the USA and its need for stable oil prices
    or iran and its ability to upset that prospect
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post
    Shock and Awe
    by Gary Corseri

    "They told us it would be over soon;
    They told us it would save our lives.
    But our children’s eyes hardened like peach pits.
    More years passed than our youth.

    They told us we needed more and more—
    More cars, more “house,” more lovers, more money.
    And we followed like rats on a treadmill
    Cascading through a labyrinth.

    We could not remember the unpronounceable names
    Of battlefields, special ops, psy ops—the droned lands.
    They told us we killed far more of their fathers.
    And we rubbed that balm like salt in our wounds.

    They cloaked themselves in our gory flag.
    They went to our games, ate hot dogs… cheered!
    Our warriors shone in their feral eyes.
    They consoled us and wept with us, dribbling lies.


    (more)

    Shock and Awe | Dissident Voice
    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    When has anyone said Iran cannot have a civilian nuclear program? Nobody has denied that. These negotiations have nothing to do with that. It's an Iranian strawman that claims anyone is denying a civilian nuclear program. These negotiations are centered around permitting IAEA inspections, which Iran is denying at Parchin. If Iran isn't testing weapon systems at Parchin, no stalling would be necessary when inspectors request access. Instead, we have negotiations to determine when to hold further negotiations to discuss an outline of further negotiations. By the time Iran permits inspection at Parchin, I imagine they'll find curiously empty buildings more spotless than a clean room.
    Don't you think there is something inherently evil about Obamas unending war machine in order to bolster American corporations at the expense of innocent lives and our citizens standard of living?

    Now we have multiple regime changes at once by Obama/Hillary - Libya, Syria, while invoking 9/11 like Dubya, and if you think the goal in Iran is any less than over turning the government there, it is a short sighted viewpoint, is it not?

    In fact, the reason Reagan is pilloried among the left is due primarily to his reckless foreign policies, lies about Iran Contra, the October Surprise, Grenanda, etc. than anything Ronny did domestically, true?

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    Re: PAPER: Military action against Iran 'likely'..

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    [bubba's bold emphasis] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/19/wo...ear-talks.html
    notice how the USA is hedging whether iran can enrich its own uranium
    now let's look at the previously cited article:

    we stepped in it here, when we reneged on a deal to provide the iranians with access to foreign sourced enriched uranium
    we provided justification for iran to pursue its own enrichment capacity
    No. Iran refused the deal. Maybe The Iranian official accepted (2009) but the higher-ups refused later, halting the deal altogether.
    AFP) – Feb 17, 2010

    TEHRAN — Iran will not suspend its sensitive high level enrichment in return for radioisotopes as offered in a letter by three world powers to the UN atomic watchdog, the foreign ministry said on Wednesday.
    [...]
    "We will not examine offers which lead to the shutting down of Tehran reactor," said the spokesman, in an almost word-for-word repetition of a statement he made on February 10.

    Iran started enriching uranium to 20 percent on February 9 to fuel its Tehran research reactor making medical radioisotopes amid international concern over its atomic ambitions.

    The move comes as world powers seek to convince Iran to accept a UN-brokered deal to supply Tehran with nuclear fuel for the reactor in exchange for its low-enriched uranium being taken out of the country.
    [...]
    The three said they "recognise the need in Iran for medical radioisotopes" which are "available on the world market and could be obtained as a responsible, timely and cost effective alternative to the IAEA's proposal."
    AFP: Iran refuses to stop enrichment in return for isotopes
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